Discussion: Octarine Core

Really?
I went ocarina on 10v10 dota 3 times and I thought why am I getting killed so EZ????
would have liked for dispersion to work, then I could go blademail,radiance,okarina and win the game everytiem. HUEHUEHUEHUE.


But thanks for clarifying. Now I feel like a dumbass

The thing with Timbersaw is, Chakram is actually technically a scaling nuke. It does a ton of damage, enough to kill most heroes from full HP easily when you get 2 of it with Aghs, even in the very late game. The thing is, however, you can only start spamming it once you get massive mana regen, and this skill is incredibly easy to juke, meaning that you need to buy items to set it up.
Timber only needs mana regen to have high damage output. However the more farm you get on Timber, the harder he is to kite. A Timber with items like blink, shivas, sheep, atos, euls etc is virtually unkiteable.

And in comparison with Skywrath Mage, Timber actually has sustained damage output, because Chakram only has an 8 second cooldown (6 with nectarine). What limits SKy as a carry is that he's a "kill a single hero with a blink-sheep combo and that's it" kind of guy, because once Sky has done that he's out of mana (Even by stacking all the mana items in the game he can't ult more than 3 or maybe 4 times).

With Sky I was actually referring to Arcane Bolt and its scaling... however, it's still not really enough to make him a proper carry.

Arcane Bolt is not a late game skill. Actually the skill falls off pretty hard, sure it does twice his INT as magic damage on a 2 second cooldown, but just compare it with Silencer's right-clicks who maybe deal only 90% of his INT but it's pure damage, they do scale with his attack speed and Silencer steals INT. While the Birdy throws one bolt, a Silencer with Moon Shard throws 6 right-clicks easily.

Sky's late game is all about blink-sheep to initiate on guys with BKB, and bursting them down instantly with double Mystic Flare. But he can only do that once. At that stage bolt hardly does anything, it's just too ******* slow.

However, skills that scale directly with INT like OD or Silencer are definitely a good way to make an INT carry. Just make them nukes not right-click steroids. Like make an INT version of Morphling :)

Well, that was my point in that it's not enough, but it's still the closest thing we've got to your 'true' APC in Dota, with spells that directly scale from stats rather than a Hero like Storm Spirit whose spells scale with mana regen, but not as overtly.



Again, my point. Make this happen OSFrog BibleThump

I'd call Storm a true AP carry if not the fact that he deals most of his damage via casual rightclicks, though technically he has a scaling source of mobility and invulnerability which makes a great carry out of any hero. A fed Storm with like 20 Bloodstone charges used to be the best carry in the game... until the recent events ofc.

How is Leshrac not an AP carry? He has crazy amounts of damage out-put that scales with his farm (More mana + more HP means he lvies longer and deals more damage. It's basically the same sense of scaling as Timbersaw.) and as 6.85 shows, the hero is essentially a carry.

OD would also be an AP carry if he wasn't just underwhelming.

They exist in DOTA, they just are limited which is a good thing in my mind.

Kind of, but not really. Once you have an Aghanim's Scepter and Veil of Discord your magic damage per second can't go any higher. Adding more items does nothing, except, as you say, keep you alive and casting longer. That's not the same thing as scaling.

I.e. adding more attack speed or raw damage, or crits or whatever to a standard carry keeps increasing your DPS as long as you can hold more/better items. If you add a Daedalus on top of your Assault Cuirass and your Monkey King Bar, all three items work together to deliver scaling.

Black King Bar is also a fairly big barrier to the era of the DPS magic carry. Or AD or whatever those LOL people call it.

That's no different to Timbersaw - His damage out-put technically has a finite limit, but additional items let him deal more ticks of it. It's a loose form of scaling, but it's scaling non the less.

Like, staying alive longer to in fights to continue to deal out magic damage, and to have a bigger mana pool to spam your spells is a form of scaling magic damage; The actual values of damage dealt don't change, but the overall output does.

Can you stop the AD/AP ********? This is not lol. Dota has skill damage and rightclick damage and heroes are categorized accordingly.