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6.85 Interpretation

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Forum » General Discussion » 6.85 Interpretation 54 posts - page 3 of 6

Poll Question:


6.85 : Better, Worse, or Even?
Better
Worse
Even
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » September 25, 2015 9:03am | Report
Knock, knock, Icefrog, it's-a me again and today I will analyze your patch hard. Da.

Changes I love:



Bloodseeker - what had to be done, has been done exactly.

Leshrac - I am satisfied. Now you can get a Magic Stick and make him much less scary.

Razor - oh yeah, I'm going to like it, always pisses me off when the link breaks just before I get another portion of damage.

Techies - honestly I am starting think this hero is too different from all the others to even exist in this game. This will surely reduce the dosage of Techies in my games.

Tusk - no more ******** Frozen Sigil kites, le tears joy on my face. Though he should be nerfed harder.

Bloodstone - great. I'd nerf starting charges rather than post-death effects, but the respwan time nerf is the most important and welcome.

Dust of Appearance - finally. I've waited for this for so long.

Moon Shard - honestly, being unable to get it from secret shop was SO annoying!

Phase Boots - makes sense. Also, this and X range increase will probably net a guaranteed kill for Kunkka at level 6.

Changes I like:



Abaddon - honestly as Kunkka rum buff has saved my and my teammates' ***es so many times I won't underestimate this - this is basically a free rum buff for your allies for 7 seconds in 900 AOE.

Bounty Hunter - mostly because I hope it will calm down those lads who scream he is/was OP.

Gyrocopter - I think that's almost enough, if not enough already.

Invoker - I hope to see more of this hero in pubs and competitive, I miss him tbh. Though that's nothing huge.

Kunkka - these changes are bad and unnecessary, but who cares? <3

Legion Commander - nothing big, but in her state everything is welcome. Maybe I'll get to learn this hero now.

Nature's Prophet - I like those buffs, I want to see more of this hero.

Necrophos - one less way to ruin a game, but Death Pulse buff is what I really dislike.

Outworld Devourer - the only change that matter is probably the 40% max MP removal. Let's see where it takes the hero, may be quite a long way.

Phantom Assassin - I like this Dagger change, probably will test Skadi on her.

Pugna - nice buffs for a little malicious racecar. Hope to see more of him(though he is annoying to play against as a melee carry).

Queen of Pain - like the fact she hasn't been touched, because there was nothing to touch(I mean, her skills, not her... ugh).

Ursa - I think that's for the better of this hero tbh.

Eul's Scepter of Divinity - oh look, a Lina nerf. Much more important(and reasonable) than all the direct nerfs combined.

Glimmer Cape - this item got what it deserves, I think that's enough.

Manta Style - nice, finally a ******** manacost fix, though I am still waiting for ranged version buff.

Medallion of Courage - good, no more fast Rosh hax.

Scythe of Vyse - this had to be done, Scythe has become a really underwhelming item.

Changes that left me disappointed/confused:



Alchemist - that's nothing. Even more so, I think this going wrong and unbalanced way. 400g from start was a lot already, and that didn't help Alch get out of trash tier. If concoction was at least remotely decent, then yea, I could go get a super-fast Blink and try to do stuff with it while giving Aghs, but concoction is ****, and so is the hero.

Ancient Apparition - a very nice buff, I was ever so irritated back in the days I played him that I had to come close and put myself in danger to cast this spell. I'd be great for it to deal some instant damage to cancel Blinks effectively, but it's not like the hero is weak, so that's enough.

Bane - haven't seen that hero frequently enough to tell what will it bring. Seems like he is some ******** double- or even solo-offlaner now, but time will tell.

Drow Ranger - still a ranged creep when approached. Halving the AGI buff when in deactivation range is so... obvious, why hasn't this been done?

Earthshaker - ok so excessive damage of Fissure was, we can all agree, the biggest problem of this hero so this change really hinders his early game po-BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAlel.

Lich - same as Bane.

Lifestealer - he needs more. Oh well, better than nothing.

Lina - officially balanced. Kappa.

Luna - if you are going to reduce Eclipse's CD, reduce it to like 120-130 or something. There are so many ways Luna can be buffed. STR growth isn't much too, on level 11 she will have 57 more HP. Meh. Well, better than nothing, plus some indirect buffs in nerfing item counters may impact her more positively. I'll see.

Nyx Assassin - never played that hero with Aghs, looks pretty OP, but I don't know for sure, nothing game-changing anyway.

Omniknight - Purification buff is VERY strong, but with Diffusal Blade buff this hero is weaker, so I think it's fine.

Oracle - wow, this hero exists. Not even gonna think about him, who cares about Oracle anyway.

Phantom Lancer - nothing. Nerf Doppelganger more and give him more HP in exchange and he will be fine, but that's too easy, right?

Puck - I'd rather have Waning Rift CD reduction instead of Illusory Orb. Other changes are nice, but not enough for him.

Spectre - interesting Dispersion change, don't know what it will lead to, but I think that's overrated. She will mot be a top tier pick nor just a popular hero.

Terrorblade - honestly that Reflection change bother me. I am yet to see it it's OP or not.

Winter Wyvern - not even closely enough nerfs, give more.

Diffusal Blade - may be pretty OP, but we'll see where it does.

Town Portal Scroll - I'd rather have a CD reduction.

Changes I dislike



Brewmaster - Dispel Magic change is amazing, but Hurl Boulder is ********. I can basically throw one extra boulder at every level of his ultimate.

Chaos Knight - honestly I think this hero should be reworked. His ulti is ******** because it is insanely strong and sucks at the same time. The best rework is basically watering his skills down but reduce cooldown of Phantasm, increase crit chance/tweak it some other way and give something for Q and W. Basically make him less... "edgy". This buff makes his offensive power even more ******** but doesn't help his weaknesses.

Disruptor - because we all know who was the worst support in 6.84, right? xDDDD

Enchantress - so one of the best early-game supports now also has ******** lategame, right? If magic damage heroes will lose their popularity she will be a top-tier pick, I'm sure.

Mirana - seems like too much. Starstorm is too good.

Naga Siren - again, no reason to do that, Aghs was good already.

Ogre Magi - now has too much armor(+1)! Oh wait. He already did.

Shadow Shaman - so theoretically he can chain disables for 8.5 seconds every 10 seconds if he is not interrupted. Pretty gimmicky, but if you , for example, meet a lone ganker in your jungle, it will be enough for your allies to TP in and punish the ****er. I don't think Rhasta needed that kind of buff.

Slardar - this is too sick. He was a nice hero already, this phase buff is not needed.

Undying - smells like huge ********. Icefraud pls.

Witch Doctor - oh ya, look at it(another top-tier support buff) go!

Wraith King - this hero doesn't need buffs, especially the laning stage. Aghs is fine I think, nobody gets it anyway.

Consumables = Bottle - this will cause a lot of confusion at first and it wan not needed at all.

Bottle - no reason for that, stupid nerf.

Helm of the Dominator - that was unnecessary.

Changes I hate:



Chen - last patches all pup him up, and this one is no exception with direct and creep buffs. He may blow up very soon.

Storm Spirit - that is WAAAAAY too hard, what was Icefrog thinking?


Pls kill yourself tier:



Warlock.




Le typical Icefraud patch.

Dimonychan

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Kyphoid returns » September 25, 2015 12:25pm | Report
Dimonychan wrote:

Knock, knock, Icefrog, it's-a me again and today I will analyze your patch hard. Da.

Changes I love:



Bloodseeker - what had to be done, has been done exactly.

Leshrac - I am satisfied. Now you can get a Magic Stick and make him much less scary.

Razor - oh yeah, I'm going to like it, always pisses me off when the link breaks just before I get another portion of damage.

Techies - honestly I am starting think this hero is too different from all the others to even exist in this game. This will surely reduce the dosage of Techies in my games.

Tusk - no more ******** Frozen Sigil kites, le tears joy on my face. Though he should be nerfed harder.

Bloodstone - great. I'd nerf starting charges rather than post-death effects, but the respwan time nerf is the most important and welcome.

Dust of Appearance - finally. I've waited for this for so long.

Moon Shard - honestly, being unable to get it from secret shop was SO annoying!

Phase Boots - makes sense. Also, this and X range increase will probably net a guaranteed kill for Kunkka at level 6.

Changes I like:



Abaddon - honestly as Kunkka rum buff has saved my and my teammates' ***es so many times I won't underestimate this - this is basically a free rum buff for your allies for 7 seconds in 900 AOE.

Bounty Hunter - mostly because I hope it will calm down those lads who scream he is/was OP.

Gyrocopter - I think that's almost enough, if not enough already.

Invoker - I hope to see more of this hero in pubs and competitive, I miss him tbh. Though that's nothing huge.

Kunkka - these changes are bad and unnecessary, but who cares? <3

Legion Commander - nothing big, but in her state everything is welcome. Maybe I'll get to learn this hero now.

Nature's Prophet - I like those buffs, I want to see more of this hero.

Necrophos - one less way to ruin a game, but Death Pulse buff is what I really dislike.

Outworld Devourer - the only change that matter is probably the 40% max MP removal. Let's see where it takes the hero, may be quite a long way.

Phantom Assassin - I like this Dagger change, probably will test Skadi on her.

Pugna - nice buffs for a little malicious racecar. Hope to see more of him(though he is annoying to play against as a melee carry).

Queen of Pain - like the fact she hasn't been touched, because there was nothing to touch(I mean, her skills, not her... ugh).

Ursa - I think that's for the better of this hero tbh.

Eul's Scepter of Divinity - oh look, a Lina nerf. Much more important(and reasonable) than all the direct nerfs combined.

Glimmer Cape - this item got what it deserves, I think that's enough.

Manta Style - nice, finally a ******** manacost fix, though I am still waiting for ranged version buff.

Medallion of Courage - good, no more fast Rosh hax.

Scythe of Vyse - this had to be done, Scythe has become a really underwhelming item.

Changes that left me disappointed/confused:



Alchemist - that's nothing. Even more so, I think this going wrong and unbalanced way. 400g from start was a lot already, and that didn't help Alch get out of trash tier. If concoction was at least remotely decent, then yea, I could go get a super-fast Blink and try to do stuff with it while giving Aghs, but concoction is ****, and so is the hero.

Ancient Apparition - a very nice buff, I was ever so irritated back in the days I played him that I had to come close and put myself in danger to cast this spell. I'd be great for it to deal some instant damage to cancel Blinks effectively, but it's not like the hero is weak, so that's enough.

Bane - haven't seen that hero frequently enough to tell what will it bring. Seems like he is some ******** double- or even solo-offlaner now, but time will tell.

Drow Ranger - still a ranged creep when approached. Halving the AGI buff when in deactivation range is so... obvious, why hasn't this been done?

Earthshaker - ok so excessive damage of Fissure was, we can all agree, the biggest problem of this hero so this change really hinders his early game po-BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAlel.

Lich - same as Bane.

Lifestealer - he needs more. Oh well, better than nothing.

Lina - officially balanced. Kappa.

Luna - if you are going to reduce Eclipse's CD, reduce it to like 120-130 or something. There are so many ways Luna can be buffed. STR growth isn't much too, on level 11 she will have 57 more HP. Meh. Well, better than nothing, plus some indirect buffs in nerfing item counters may impact her more positively. I'll see.

Nyx Assassin - never played that hero with Aghs, looks pretty OP, but I don't know for sure, nothing game-changing anyway.

Omniknight - Purification buff is VERY strong, but with Diffusal Blade buff this hero is weaker, so I think it's fine.

Oracle - wow, this hero exists. Not even gonna think about him, who cares about Oracle anyway.

Phantom Lancer - nothing. Nerf Doppelganger more and give him more HP in exchange and he will be fine, but that's too easy, right?

Puck - I'd rather have Waning Rift CD reduction instead of Illusory Orb. Other changes are nice, but not enough for him.

Spectre - interesting Dispersion change, don't know what it will lead to, but I think that's overrated. She will mot be a top tier pick nor just a popular hero.

Terrorblade - honestly that Reflection change bother me. I am yet to see it it's OP or not.

Winter Wyvern - not even closely enough nerfs, give more.

Diffusal Blade - may be pretty OP, but we'll see where it does.

Town Portal Scroll - I'd rather have a CD reduction.

Changes I dislike



Brewmaster - Dispel Magic change is amazing, but Hurl Boulder is ********. I can basically throw one extra boulder at every level of his ultimate.

Chaos Knight - honestly I think this hero should be reworked. His ulti is ******** because it is insanely strong and sucks at the same time. The best rework is basically watering his skills down but reduce cooldown of Phantasm, increase crit chance/tweak it some other way and give something for Q and W. Basically make him less... "edgy". This buff makes his offensive power even more ******** but doesn't help his weaknesses.

Disruptor - because we all know who was the worst support in 6.84, right? xDDDD

Enchantress - so one of the best early-game supports now also has ******** lategame, right? If magic damage heroes will lose their popularity she will be a top-tier pick, I'm sure.

Mirana - seems like too much. Starstorm is too good.

Naga Siren - again, no reason to do that, Aghs was good already.

Ogre Magi - now has too much armor(+1)! Oh wait. He already did.

Shadow Shaman - so theoretically he can chain disables for 8.5 seconds every 10 seconds if he is not interrupted. Pretty gimmicky, but if you , for example, meet a lone ganker in your jungle, it will be enough for your allies to TP in and punish the ****er. I don't think Rhasta needed that kind of buff.

Slardar - this is too sick. He was a nice hero already, this phase buff is not needed.

Undying - smells like huge ********. Icefraud pls.

Witch Doctor - oh ya, look at it(another top-tier support buff) go!

Wraith King - this hero doesn't need buffs, especially the laning stage. Aghs is fine I think, nobody gets it anyway.

Consumables = Bottle - this will cause a lot of confusion at first and it wan not needed at all.

Bottle - no reason for that, stupid nerf.

Helm of the Dominator - that was unnecessary.

Changes I hate:



Chen - last patches all pup him up, and this one is no exception with direct and creep buffs. He may blow up very soon.

Storm Spirit - that is WAAAAAY too hard, what was Icefrog thinking?


Pls kill yourself tier:



Warlock.




Le typical Icefraud patch.

Yeah, thank you
Go On, Feed Me.

Kyphoid returns


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » September 25, 2015 12:44pm | Report
Np bro, have fun.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » September 25, 2015 12:44pm | Report
You can't take away CK's randomness, it's his theme. From his base damage oscilation to his crit now as well.



Back to the Batrider debacle, as I said he could jungle @ level one and a lot faster than most junglers before the small camp was exchanged with the medium one. Stack it once after it spawns, and at 1:20 in the game you should be level 2. From there on you can just go on normally. If you really wanted to be efficient, just ask a support to stack the big camp for you while you stack the small one just that once. 10 min blink + brown boots is not bad. Only one jungler that goes faster and that's Enigma.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » September 25, 2015 12:52pm | Report
Of course, but you can make it more smooth. Right now the hero is just too hit-or-miss to be playable. The main concern is ulti, of course. I can't think of any carry who can stand against CK and his illusions in a manfight, it is ridiculous, but at the same time he is easily splitpushed because he has a damn 140 second cd on Phantasm. You can make illusions weaker and reduce the cooldown, and it would already be a good step to make him balanced I believe.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » September 25, 2015 2:49pm | Report
On the whole, I think it's an improvement - there's some stuff I think didn't go far enough and a few missed opportunities, but overall pretty solid.

Can't say I understand the Oracle changes, that hero is in a bad place at the moment and seems to be getting more of a kicking. That Naga Siren scepter upgrade is a nerf waiting to happen. Techies...the suicide auto-fb ******** is still active, despite a general move in the right direction.

On the other hand, I do like the various small buffs to a number of under used heroes, and I'll happily live without seeing Storm Spirit too much for a while. The MMR *****s are going to have to learn a new hero...
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Seagull » September 25, 2015 3:31pm | Report
I really love the Tiny buff <3 (no bias :P)
But seriously, his laning got a lot better. You now only have to get one branch to have combo lvl 2 and therefore can get a Ring of Protection and Stout Shield or two rings to make up for the horrible starting armour.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » September 25, 2015 3:36pm | Report
Oracle got massively buffed. Can't you see? Cast ranges are far, far more important in dota than cooldowns, damage, etc. Cast ranges are completely game changing, that's why Scythe of Vyse is 10 times better than Hex for example.

Fortune's End got a massive cast range buff. I thought the Winter Wyvern experience has clearly shown that supports having high cast ranges on their skills is absurdly strong.

Get ready for Oracles sitting back out of harm's way and spamming their Q skill that got its cooldown *halved*. 2.5 second AOE pseudo-stun every 6 seconds with no risk involved guys. That'll be really fun to play against :)

And Storm Spirit is still a top tier pick and was barely stratched guys. He'll still be around for a while. His remnant spam in lane in a bit weaker, he no longer respawns instantly thanks to that well-deserned Bloodstone nerf...but besides this his ult is still just as broken as it always was, and the guy will always be spammed by tryhards all around the dota world.
Get your Dooms ready and don't let those tryhards try to ninja a last pick Storm :)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » September 25, 2015 4:42pm | Report
I don't know, a big part of the reason for picking Oracle was the thought of being able to boost physical damage output by 50% at level 2 - it kind of made up for the high mana cost and low damage of Fortune's End. Yes, it's now easier to hit with, and slightly higher damage at level 1...but it drops rapidly afterwards in comparison to the old skill - and it's not like you can spam it early game without follow up to actually do something.

You're still extremely level dependent if you want any damage output, and not a particularly great ganker or stack clearer. You still have mana problems and what feels like a "meh" ult.

The change to Fate's Edict means you can now protect allies from magic damage more safely in complex situations.

As somebody said already - it's really hard to see why you'd pick him over Dazzle or Winter Wyvern in most situations. About the only thing he can really offer is a lot of stun protection for your carry...and there's this item called a Black King Bar...

I could be wrong, but I don't see him being in a very good place. He doesn't make that much sense as a support or a core at the moment. At most he's a clutch pick against heavy magic damage/disable.

I'm hoping Storm Spirit gets a dose of the "Troll effect" where the nerfs give people a reason to stop playing him. The real nerf he needed was something about his cast time or not being invulnerable while it's active.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pocciox » September 26, 2015 2:04pm | Report
Invoker had 2.5 int per level in 6.83 and now has 4. Only problem with him is that eul's got nerfed so much...

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