Hero Discussion #7 Bristleback

Bristleback is a strength melee hero that is pretty unique being a hero that wants to turn his back towards the enemy as often as he can making some think that he is a coward. I can assure you that quite the opposite is the case :
Bristleback is just looking for a good scratch.

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Taking a quick look at his abilities:

Viscous Nasal Goo: Launches snot at a unit, causing it to be slowed and have reduced armor for the duration. Multiple casts will stack and refresh the duration (stacks up to 4 times).
Aghanim's Scepter upgrade: Nasal Goo is no longer targeted, instead it applies Goo to all enemies around you in 700 AoE when casted.

Quill Spray: Sprays the area around Bristleback with quills dealing damage. Deals bonus damage for every time a unit was hit by Quill Spray in the last 14 seconds. Multiple casts do stack but do not refresh the duration. It takes 13 / 12 / 12 / 11 stacks to reach the maximum damage of this ability (the damage is capped at 450) meaning that you either need sprays from your next ability Bristleback or an item/rune that decreases your cooldowns because you can usually only spray 4 times within the 14 seconds you have.


Bristleback: Bristleback takes less damage if hit on the sides or rear. If Bristleback takes 210 damage from the rear, he releases a Quill Spray of the current level. This is the skill that defines Bristleback and enables him to deal so much damage while having his back turned towards the enemy.

Warpath: Like in an fps you press W to move. Whenever Bristleback he gets a stack of this ability whenever he casts a spell granting him movement speed and attack damage for the next 14 seconds. The maximum amount of stacks is 5 / 6 / 7 translating into a maximum of 15/24/35% movement speed and 100/150/210 attack damage.

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Bristleback is a hero who can quickly snowball out of control if left unchecked but who alls falls of a bit (or more depending on the build) in the late game.
He can handle a lane by his own if not zoned out early enough usually forcing two enemies to stay in his lane as his killing potential (especially post level 5) is tremendous.
He also shines in team fights as he has too much damage to be ignored but is at the same time
too tanky to focus down.
Potential topics of conversation

• 
  Is he best played in the offlane because of his tankiness given by Bristleback and his ability to trade well with Quill Spray or is he better played in the safe lane to have a strong laning presence that translates into the ability to teamfight early and quickly close the game?
  
  
• Is he a high-risk, high-reward solo-offlaner like Clockwerk who can technically be zoned out before getting any experience or can he do well against most match-ups?
  
  
• This hero has a multitude of possible item builds:
  Should he focus on his tankiness absorbing as much damage as he can ( Crimson Guard, Heart of Tarrasque, Blade Mail)?
  
  Should he focus on dealing damage while being tanky ( Sange and Yasha, Abyssal Blade, Satanic?
  
  Should he attempt to enable the maximum aoe damage possible, unleashing a barrage of skills with shortened cooldowns and achieving more stacks of his abilities ( Radiance, Octarine Core(+ Blade Mail))
  
  Or should he focus on carrying auras as his tankiness ensures that his team can benefit from them the whole time?
  
  Or maybe he should focus on keeping a balance between all of this ?
  
  
• If you think he’s way too underpowered now and he’s not a viable pick-up, what do you think he needs to be on-pair with his fellow teammates/to make it worth entering Captain's mode?
  
  
• What type of line-ups is he better in? And against what heroes does he struggle the most?
  
  
• You’re playing against a Bristleback. What do you need to do in order to make sure you don’t get rekt? (strategies, itemization)
  
  
• Did anyone ever stumble upon a situation in which Aghanim's Scepter was at least semi-legit?

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I hope this makes for an interestic topic. I love to play Rigwarl and think he is really fun to play but I also think that he could use some buffs, hence I am curious what you think about the matter.
Cheers!
michimatsch

Whatever you do, you must have a Magic Stick and later a Magic Wand while laning against Bristleback. Also, I believe Aghanim's Scepter is good against illusion heroes to kill illusions faster. (such as TB, or PL).

Ah Bristle, the worst offlaner in the game, since no one quite hates being zoned from level 1 quite as much as him, yet is as reliant on lane farm as him. In order to be playable, he needs either an early game buff (I suggest lower mana cost on Quill Spray), or a late game buff (basically, so that Break makes him less unplayably bad).

But man, against mass melee teams, especially ones low on stuns and burst damage, he is a complete nightmare.

I find he gets better results at a somewhat high level in the safelane or in the midlane (since he can beat a fair number of heroes in this lane: Pudge, Kunkka, Tiny, Zeus oddly enough), since he is very dependent on his laning phase in order to do well, and if he can't bully the offlane, putting him there is a recipe for disaster, whereas with early farm, he can bully the hell out of many teams, especially greedy ones midgame.

I think in the right drafts, Bristle's Aghs is very very strong, mainly because not having to face heroes (often melee or with slow turn rates like Oracle or Shadow Shaman) who are chasing you means you have absurd kiting power. If against multiple heroes vulnerable to this, the results can be... messy. 4 people slowed by 50% while no one could kill me since I went Crimson first. Beautiful days. I will one day recreate that once this Timbersaw guy disappears for a bit.

Ahem

Are you guys taking turns for hero discussion thread?


WOW!

Yes Kyphoid, there are SOME organized nice people in this site too you know (UHUM)

Now to the subjet at hand: Nice initial post!

Wulf and Cuttle already raised very interesting points. I only partially disagree with Cuttle cause I've seen some Bristle Aghanim's Scepter that are really a bad choice on the hero, and I think it's very, very situational at best.

Why that is: depending on the role Bristleback takes on the team, he will need a lot of different items to fullfill it; so there isn't any actual point where you want to go for the Aghs more than anything else.

Let's see how that is regarding the two most common positions (in competitive too):
- Position 1 (mostly in the safelane): You need to be able to carry the game, so you will need damage and attack speed, besides enough life/armor, magic immunity and lockdown. Yes, you need a ****ton and you don't have this besides what you get from your own abilities, so common items picked up are: Vanguard (into very later Abyssal Blade), Sange and Yasha, Black King Bar, Assault Cuirass, Skull Basher, Monkey King Bar if there is evasion, sometimes even Blink Dagger. All of this items fulfill one of the functions mentioned above and you will probably need most of them to properly carry (for instance, if you don't get a BKB you will be disabled and not be able to dish your damage, if you don't buff your right click damage with a S&Y you won't have enough damage to be a real threat in the early game, etc). Mostly you want to pair an Io with this Bristle, to grant him the bonus AS and extra survivibility while he takes on damage.

It's a mistake to think you can get an Aghs in this situation and still carry the game against the enemy core, because even if you do manage to kill 2 or 3 heroes with it you are still gonna fall off in the late game when directly facing the other core - and Aghs realistically makes you rely completely on your Quills for your damage, which you cannot do if you're the #1 because the enemy team can protect themselves from your Quills and you need to be doing direct right click damage (someone has to).

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- Position 2/3 (mostly mid or offlane in a duo lane): More utility wise, you're not the right clicker but you still need equipment to survive and make your stacked Quills a danger. Again, you will need some of the following: Vanguard (that may turn later into Crimson Guard), Hoof of Defiance, Mekansm/ Guardian Greaves, Lotus Orb, Shiva's Guard, Scythe of Vyze etc.

Ofc there are combinations between this positions and a whole lot of subtle changes here and there, but I think I explained the main idea I wanted to show, which is: there is no space in this to get Aghs, there is no good timing for it and no moment in the game where you can't replace it with something else more useful - specially cause what it gives you is blocked by BKB and helps you drain your mana in a way most Bristle's arent' prepared to deal with because they don't get Int items.

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However: Aghs might be situationally legit in a game with specific circumstances that make it a better pick off, like the one Wulf mentioned with illusions, or what Cuttle said about kitting people chasing you. But those do not apply to the #1 Bristle, and they are only situationally true for the other Bristle, since one of his biggest problems is to be ignored while the rest of his team is killed. I specially dislike the builds that go Aghs into Octarine Core, because if they are not picked in the 8% situations where they are usefull, they are complete trash, and people in the lower levels do not realise this (there is a reason why pros do not go for it, which you won't know if you don't watch games). Octarine Core, like Aghs, is good in very specific late game situations, and if you pick this hero you don't want to go that late anyway.

He isn't indeed a good offlaner on his own in higher level games, as explained already, since he can be zoned out effectively and he needs equiptment and levels to be useful without falling off too quickly. Some metas ago most pros tried to solve this by relying in a good Mekansm timing and making Bristle's team more of a pushing strat with it, grouping as five with that early advantage and trying to pressure before it became too late.

One usual trick most people in pubs don't know is you can with a simple duo lane with enough damage almost kill or at least zone off/burn regen from a Bristle in the offlane, since he will be getting the first point in Quills and he's not as tanky yet as it could seem.

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All of this said, I think he's a viable pick-up now everywhere, and in low pubs he does work better as a space creator (because there players don't know how to play with a core that needs to finish early). He's just situational, as a lot of cores are. Silver Edge didn't hurt him to oblivion because the hero relies on his passive only in the early to mid game anyway, where the enemy doesn't have time/can't go SE yet, and he needs to be finishing the game/getting relevant right click and tankyness from items to not rely on it anymore.

If you play against a Bristleback, besides what was already said: don't forget his peak, wherever is role is, starts happening around his level 7, when he has his ulti available and his Quills maxed. Don't make the mistake of focusing down a Bristle if you don't have the tools to nuke him down quickly and specially don't overcommit chasing one cause that will only take you to Fails of the week. You can even kite around him as much as you can, bearing in mind he has no innate mobily, and you can avoid direct fights and farm and push the map while taking the game late - cause later he will fall off and you will be there farmed to contest him.

Can't remember anything else to add XD here is a giant post for you wheee

What do you think about Shiva's Guard and Rod of Atos ?

My prefer build on Bristleback is Scythe of Vyse and Crimson Guard, you need that mana regen to spam Quill spray and Nasal goo, also bb is very vulnerable to tps much like a Blood

´´What do you think of Shiva´s Guard and Rod of Athos´´ i think he does not need more slows and more AOE damage he already have, if you are building int itens on him at least build one to regen strongly his mana, and then he needs a stun so Scythe of Vyse or Euls Scepter of Divinity should do good on him

IMO Shiva's Guard is a rather common pick up that's nice and useful, since usually late game Bristle needs armor and the item offers great utility for the team (the inteligence isn't completely wasted since it converts into more spells hence more damage also). I think Assault Cuirass is better most of the times if no one else is buying it, but that's maybe just personal too. Both fullfill the armor on Bristle/less armor on the enemies purpose, both are good.

Rod of Atos, on the other hand, I really dislike for this hero. It is basically a soft disable with some extra life/Int that is redundant on a Bristle that has exactly a soft disable already (goo) and will have to get the extra life from other sources (like the Vanguard that you want almost 80% of games) and you don't need the Int yet, you have very ok Int for a Strenght hero and a simple Basi solves most mana issues.

I mean let's look at another hero where the item is great: Silencer. Doesn't have a slow/moving disable, doesn't build life and needs the Int a lot as well, so it fits him even as a first item, which makes its timing work against the enemy that hasn't gotten BKBs yet. Compare it to Bristle: If you rush it, you don't have any of the things you lack (more damage, armor, tankyness against physical or magical damage), only some added stuff that could be nice situationally but that otherwise kinda derails you from your timings. For me, it's like after the Athos you still have to buy everything else you need, so it doesn't really solve any issue and it's just a meh option. Not saying it never works or that it's pointless on the hero - I can see why some people would buy it, but I think there are always way better options for that and it really feels like a waste of gold.

Edit: For the hard disable yea, I personally think Abyssal Blade fits him like a glove while Scythe of Vyse is more situational, but both fullfill the same purpose. Eul's Scepter of Divinity is a bit ridiculous too because it makes you again very reliant on getting damage through with your spells only, which you should already be doing with no great mana issues and you need some right click too or you fall off.

What are the best duos with Bristle? I know from watching MVP that Io Bristle is strong... I also heard that venge and dazzle with bristle is strong (because of armor reduction).

Anything that decreases a hero's armor or stun helps since Vicious Nasal Goo decreases armor, but takes a while to set up the stacks, while Quill Spray and Warpath encourage physical damage, so the lower the armor for the enemy hero, the better. Beastmaster and Troll Warlord also deserves a special mention because of his attack speed aura, the latter gives a lot of attack speed from his ult. If it isn't been mentioned, Bristle's base attack time is 1.8, which is a tad bit slower than the other heroes in this game.

Aside from that, heroes that can either heal or help him tank damage also help, Omniknight can heal and give spell immunity to Bristleback, so there's that. Dazzle, Witch Doctor, and to some extend Vladimir's Offering carriers can also help him out with the lifesteal. He can obviously build one himself to give the survivability he wants, but that's a bit of a waste because he needs other tanky/DPS items to give him the sustain, and Vladimir's Offering simply isn't enough.