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6.86 "Pro" Abaddon

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Forum » Theory Crafting » 6.86 "Pro" Abaddon 24 posts - page 2 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » January 19, 2016 7:26pm | Report
Now for 5-position Abaddon, I feel like it is feasible, you just have treat him like a 5-position Lich in that you got to let him get a quick level 6 so he can be that tank. But here's another thing to remember about 5-position Abaddon and it's similar to a 5-position Ogre Magi: it's terrific if you're ahead, but deadweight if you're behind.

Sp3ctr3 wrote:

If playing as a core, I usually go for a Mask of Madness + Sange and Yasha + Skull Basher build and Black King Bar if needed.


If you're going to go for a right click build, you'll want to do something like this:
Orb of Venom>> Phase Boots>> Sange and Yasha>>Vlad's>> Eye of Skadi

The principle behind this is that this particular build gives Abaddon a healthy mix of tankiness and right click ability (SnY+Skadi gives you 1000+ health and Skadi gives you an Eaglesong's worth of agility, not to mention Yasha bonuses).

Mask of Madness would be a good fit if we're talking the 6.83 version of it, but right now it's just not that good and it doesn't help Abaddon do what he does best: sit on the frontlines and not die. In addition, Vlad's outclasses MoM since Abaddon is already an excellent aura-carrier and he can sit in the fight long enough for your team to benefit from it.

Skull Basher... sounds good on paper, but the bash on it's own doesn't warrant an item slot IMO. Though it does build into Abyssal Blade later on, you've got better options.

Oh and if you really want to make life miserable for your opponent, throw in a Rod of Atos, it gives you even more health, some mana and the active synergizes really well with this build.

Sp3ctr3 wrote:

Ok, so I have some questions about Abaddon and his counterpart Omniknight.
1- If Abaddon receives a fully upgraded Laguna Blade while affected by Apotic Shield and he has let's say 410 Hp, is he going to die? Or Borrowed Time triggers? The amount of damage should kill you straigth rigth?
2- If I use Mist Coil on an enemy who is low on hp and I kill him, but in the process Mist Coil also kills me, do I get the money for the kill? Or the denie happens first?
3- The damage reflection from Blade Mail heals me while in Borrowed Time?
4- If I am playing Omni and I use Repel on an enemy Dazzle, is he able to use Shallow Grave on himself? What happens if I use Repel on one of his teammates, is he able to use Shallow Grave on that ally?
5- I play in a team with some friends, and I like to play both Abaddon and Omni, and one of my teammates is really good using Omni, is a good idea having them both at the same time in a game? Like in a aggresive dual lane or something, or is that a terrible idea?
6- If they are in the same team, which of them should be the possition 3 and which the #4?
And finally: Which one is cooler?

1- Aphotic Shield increases your effective health, meaning that if the shield is level 4, your effective would be 610, it also negates damage after reductions so an aghs Laguna Blade deals 850 pure damage whereas a non aghs Laguna Blade will deal about 640 magical damage after reductions, long story short, Borrowed Time won't trigger because you'll be dead.
2- Mist Coil damages your target before damaging yourself, so you'll get both the gold and the experience for the kill.
3- Blade Mail return damage is pure, and Borrowed Time heals all damage types except for hp removal, so yes.
4- Shallow Grave ignores spell immunity, meaning Repel'd targets can have the spell casted on it.
5- The two heroes together aren't the most dominant lane heroes and Omniknight brings next to nothing in an aggressive lane, be it tri or duo. Since he has no disables or zoning ability.
6- Omniknight is far more farm dependent than Abaddon so you should play Abaddon as a roaming 4: Go orb+level 1 Curse of Avernus>>brown boots>> Bottle/ Soul Ring

Abaddon, way more versatile than omni, you can play him as just about anything, you can tower dive, roam, split push, he is the Renaissance Man of Dota 2.

Fedorable
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sp3ctr3 » January 19, 2016 8:41pm | Report
I can see you play both of the heroes too @Fedorable, I really appreciate the response. I have never build Eye of Skadi in Abaddon but I have to tell you that it sounds pretty cool, I'll give it a try. Also, what do you think about Mjollnir, I usually use the active on myself and then charge the enemy. I have think about build a Blink Dagger for both heroes since they need a lot of mobility, don't know for now but I think it sounds good on paper.
Another thing, is Radiance a good item for Abaddon? I mean, it delays a lot your presence in teamfights and even when I'm playing core Abaddon I like to participate in early teamfights or skirmishes.
Now, about Omni, I play him in a similar way to Abaddon, so I usually go for a Drum of Endurance + Mekansm + Vladmir's Offering build, then I like to build Sange and Yasha. Is S&Y a good item for Omni? Or should I save my money for something like a Shiva's Guard or an Aghs?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by michimatsch » January 20, 2016 4:00am | Report
About the Radiance thing: When I play Abaddon I like to get it when I am the offlaner with an agressive lane partner and we have an easy lane or I got an easy solo offlane or I'll get it later. Furthermore you should always get it if you have enemies that usually get Blink Dagger's or already have them. You either rush it within say 20 minutes or you build it later as the 17% miss chance really helps both you by increasing your EHP and your team and it means you will do a lot of damage as you can stay in the fight for quite a while.
Be sure to build tanky items if you are going for it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » January 20, 2016 4:49am | Report
If you can get Radi before minute 20, it's better than getting Vlads-SnY. The problem is you'll have to play really safe until your get Relic and that's a huge chunk of gold. I think Radi is more for solo safe Abaddon rather than hard;ane core since you want to do stuff around the map with any kind of offlane Aba.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » January 20, 2016 4:51am | Report
He's been seeing love in NA for the whole of the patch (And the tail end of the last one), in either the 4 or the 3 role.

As the 4, he does the usual things expected of a support Abaddon, spam heals, spam shield, keep people alive.

As the 3, he's about crushing the safe lane and early game pushing. Like you can almost never fight into an Abaddon early; He's got [Aphotic Shield]] and eventually Curse of Avernus. He will win basically any trade, and threaten kill potential on supports trying to zone him. You contest cs, get a lot out of the lane, then group up with your team, sit at the front line and take towers. If the enemy wants to stop you, they have to initiate on an Abaddon, which is an awful thing for them.

You go like 0-4-2-1, and build like Phase Boots and Vladamr's Offering into an Ag's.

The hero is built for deathball line-ups, one way or another.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » January 20, 2016 11:55am | Report
Sp3ctr3 wrote:

I can see you play both of the heroes too @Fedorable, I really appreciate the response. I have never build Eye of Skadi in Abaddon but I have to tell you that it sounds pretty cool, I'll give it a try. Also, what do you think about Mjollnir, I usually use the active on myself and then charge the enemy. I have think about build a Blink Dagger for both heroes since they need a lot of mobility, don't know for now but I think it sounds good on paper.
Another thing, is Radiance a good item for Abaddon? I mean, it delays a lot your presence in teamfights and even when I'm playing core Abaddon I like to participate in early teamfights or skirmishes.
Now, about Omni, I play him in a similar way to Abaddon, so I usually go for a Drum of Endurance + Mekansm + Vladmir's Offering build, then I like to build Sange and Yasha. Is S&Y a good item for Omni? Or should I save my money for something like a Shiva's Guard or an Aghs?


A while back cuttle actually proposed a Blink Dagger Abaddon build that was played as a r[A]t hero. Blink's actually very good on him since it can't be disabled while Borrowed Time is active, it's also good for helping you land shields to purge stuns off of allies since the cast range is subpar (however, Aether Lens is a suitable alternative if you're going the support route).

Now this is just on paper, but a r[A]t Abaddon build should include Blink Dagger, Maelstrom, BoTs, Necrobook and maybe even a Desolator. What you do is call out your necro units, pop your ulti and attack the tower along with the necro units, remember that creeps and summoned/controlled units also benefit from Curse of Avernus. Then when your ult is about over, simply blink away.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sp3ctr3 » January 20, 2016 1:44pm | Report
Lol that rat build, if I do that some day my teammates probably are going to have a heart attack or something. Still, I could give it a try.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » January 20, 2016 2:33pm | Report
The problem is now that as of 6.86 there is a hero who does essentially the same thing, but better so there is no point in picking rat Aba now when you can just pick Zet.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » January 20, 2016 3:29pm | Report
Dimonychan wrote:

The problem is now that as of 6.86 there is a hero who does essentially the same thing, but better so there is no point in picking rat Aba now when you can just pick Zet.


Yes, except people actually know how to play Abaddon and Arc Warden isn't available in CM yet.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » January 20, 2016 4:19pm | Report
Dimonychan wrote:

The problem is now that as of 6.86 there is a hero who does essentially the same thing, but better so there is no point in picking rat Aba now when you can just pick Zet.


Yeah, but can Arc Warden go offlane?

You don't have to farm safe lane with Abaddon to rat. Like Nature's Prophet, he's a #3 rat, not a #1 or #2 rat. That's a huge difference.

Vladmir's Offering, Blink Dagger and Necronomicon. Beastmaster farms that stuff pretty fast so why not Abaddon.
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