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Best Late-Game Hero that isn't a Hard Carry?

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Forum » General Discussion » Best Late-Game Hero that isn't a Hard Carry? 25 posts - page 2 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » June 4, 2015 7:40am | Report
I'd say blokes like Shadow Demon, Abaddon, Winter Wyvern, Enigma, Magnus, Doom, Dark Seer, Io, Necrolyte are the main ones that come to mind.

ShaDemon has a 50% damage amp, illusion making spells, a purge, and a 1k damage nuke.

Abby doesn't die, purges stuns everywhere, and is the best aura carrier ever basically.

Wyvern's Q and R eat faces lategame with all the damage flying around. The E is also an amazing sustain spell.

Enigma and Magnus have Black Hole and RP respectively. Enigma also has Midnight Pulse, while Swagnus has Empower.

Doom deals considerable damage and has amazing disabling capacities with Aghs-Refresher.

Dank Seer's Wall deals a ridiculous amount of damage, even more with a bit of micro. Surge and Vacuum are also great utility spells, and the guy builds a heap of auras.

Wisp is... well, Wisp. Does Wisp things. Moves the carry to rat, etc.

Funstopper Aura is insanely good lategame with the damage it deals, and Reaper's Scythe is absolutely terrifying especially with Aghs.

Special mention also to Invoker, who can make a lot of things happen once BKBs run low.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Krwiozerca » June 4, 2015 10:23am | Report
Winter Wyvern.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by strider » June 4, 2015 10:48am | Report
no one mentions Witch Doctor? Maledict along with Death Ward scale insanley well and his other spells are at least decent in late game.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by UltraSuperHyper » June 4, 2015 11:47am | Report
Ancient Apparition

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » June 4, 2015 11:48am | Report
I'd say Magnus. This hero with farm is ******ed.

6-slotted build : Blink Dagger, Refresher Orb, Octarine Core, Black King Bar, Daedalus, upgraded boots of travel - and Moon Shard in tummy.

Can even put Refresher Orb on courier and have another item like Scythe of Vyse or Abyssal Blade.

I don't think any other hero can beat that. 7.5 second AOE stun in teamfights, 75 second cooldown on ult, 146 second cooldown on refresher. Empower is absolute ******** in late game. Low ult cooldown allows him to abuse it for solo pickoffs as well. Good right-click damage (building right-click is way better than building a late game Shiva's Guard or something btw)...essentially you have a monster that you simply can't teamfight into, and who can solo kill almost anything.
And the upgraded boots of travel on utility heroes...Icefrog pls. Literally jump instantly into any engagement and RP their faces.

Necrophos, Omniknight and Enigma come just next in line.

- Tinker and Doom don't really qualify since, well, they're already considered carries. Carry = main damage dealer. Tinker and Doom are main damage dealers - even utility Doom is all about getting solo kills. They're very different from e.g Necrophos who is really good in late game for his ability to increase respawn time and remove buyback (and not his damage which is actually not that high), or a pure utility disabler like Enigma.

- Winter Wyvern kind of works, but that's mainly due to Cold Embrace being broken. There's no way this skill isn't getting nerfed, so once it gets purgeable or something the fun won't last. Outside of ******** undispellable Ghost Scepter castable on allies with a billion range and no cooldown...the rest of her skillset is decent but not great.

- Nature's Prophet is decent because he can rat, but since he has no scaling skills and his manfight is a complete joke...when you get to ultra late game pretty much anyone can just solo kill him. Furion is good because he has more farm than you, but since his skills don't scale if everyone gets 6-slotted he just gets rekt by any other 6-slotted hero. Besides in late game scenarios everyone has a Silver Edge, a Blink Dagger and/or a Scythe of Vyse/ Abyssal Blade, so any hero who actually deals damage will just Boots of Travel to the creep wave out of vision and solo kill the rat.

- Alchemist...sure he gives an Aghs to everyone but the hero himself is pretty bad in late game no matter how you build him. He just got buffed from trash hero to trash hero who gives Aghs that's about it :)

- Oracle : his ult is really good but he has literally nothing else. Ok, unpurgeable Repel + Shallow Grave is great, but not as much as double Guardian Angel is :)

- Abaddon : actually the only time I ever saw an Aba making game-changing late game plays is when I saw one pop Borrowed Time for rat dota. Literally pop ult and hit buildings, since that's 7 seconds of invulnerability which means a free T3 tower or rax under the very nose of the enemy team who can't do anything about it. Other than this kind of clutch plays, he's kind of a walking Aghs-ult with some auras and a bit of right-click...which is good but not game winning.

- Dark Seer : other than the fact that there are very few AGI carries in this meta (the only thing DS is truly good against)...400% illusion damage taken. His illusions often get literally blown up by AOE before they even spawn -_-
He has the potential to deal huge damage with his illusions...but if they don't die, so he's only situationally good. I'm sure Leshrac kills his illusions in 1.5 seconds at most...that's a sad Dork Seer.
I'm a bit confused that his laning got buffed but his illusions are still as squishy, making his illusions survivable was what needed a buff to make the hero viable IMO.

- Shadow Demon is OK because he can solo kill AGI carries with a blink as only item...but in a meta where the safe lane carry is a Queen of Pain and the mid is a Leshrac, what does he really do in late game besides getting nuked to death? :)
Well I guess he can spam slows and breaks with Aghs. Sure. But he still holds a few records of most feed in several tournaments.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KrDotoBestDoto » June 4, 2015 12:03pm | Report
Imo Oracle got killed by 6.84. Before his ult was basically a better glimmer cape, but now that they took away the invis the only thing it's really useful for is putting it on an initiator so he can't get disabled when he jumps in. Saving the carry doesn't work, because he'll still take the dmg and mek won't be enough in most cases. Before you could urn and purifying flame as well, but you'd have to have 2 force staffs on the team to get the carry far enough from dmg.

If you look at glimmer cape you can see how good that kind of invis is. By taking it away from Oracle they reduced his ult to a slightly better aphotic shield.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by masaaki14 » June 4, 2015 12:12pm | Report
strider wrote:

no one mentions Witch Doctor? Maledict along with Death Ward scale insanley well and his other spells are at least decent in late game.


wd peaks in the midgame, and falls off in the lategame when everyone has more armor. damage from maledict is still good, but it also falls off as enemies get more hp and lifesteal.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » June 4, 2015 12:18pm | Report

Imo Oracle got killed by 6.84. Before his ult was basically a better glimmer cape, but now that they took away the invis the only thing it's really useful for is putting it on an initiator so he can't get disabled when he jumps in. Saving the carry doesn't work, because he'll still take the dmg and mek won't be enough in most cases. Before you could urn and purifying flame as well, but you'd have to have 2 force staffs on the team to get the carry far enough from dmg.

If you look at glimmer cape you can see how good that kind of invis is. By taking it away from Oracle they reduced his ult to a slightly better aphotic shield.


Well, instead of annoying-but-pointless invis, he now gives...immunity to stuns, since it has a strong dispel that refreshes itself constantly.
That's honestly much better, since the carry now has a free Black King Bar which is even better than a BKB since the guy is even immune to BKB-piercing stuff like Reverse Polarity or even bash from Skull Basher/ Abyssal Blade.
And then the carry pops Satanic and manfights, and he just heals up everything he lost.

Don't try saving your carry with stuff like Mek/Urn. Have your carry build lifesteal, that's just way better, and there's no way he can die.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » June 4, 2015 1:17pm | Report
There's a lot of heroes who scale really well into the late-game. More than people really give credit for.

Some are heroes whose skill-sets scale well with items, or as the enemy gets items (Like Magnus, Shadow Demon and Dark Seer for example), but there's also heroes who scale with BKB timings.

5 seconds BKB's in the late game is actually huge to a lot of heroes, and it means that execution in the late game suddenly means that even heroes who don't conventionally scale, suddenly scale really well. Essentially each and every initator, BKB piercing Stun or not.

This is heroes like Shadow Shaman, Lion and remarkably enough Clockwerk (Okay SS scales really well with farm, but for what I'm saying, consider Blink Dagger the be all and end all of his items). 5 second BKB's means that you are no longer dependant on getting the initial jump; you kite the the enemy carry, and commit with your disables once BKB's are down. Clock especially is terrifying in late game team-fights with 12s cooldown on Hookshot.

So really, I think most heroes can scale well into the late gme now, it's probably easier to list the ones that clearly don't.

Also honourable mention to Ancient Appirition, because Ice Blast is one of the best scaling abilities in the game period.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by strider » June 4, 2015 2:02pm | Report
masaaki14 wrote:



wd peaks in the midgame, and falls off in the lategame when everyone has more armor. damage from maledict is still good, but it also falls off as enemies get more hp and lifesteal.

valid points.he's not as good as i made him out to be,but still Death Ward is one of most damaging spells in the game,it's great for holding highground and has pretty low cd so it can be used for solo pickoffs.
on the forum discussion,what do you guys think about Treant Protector, Keeper of the Light, Silencer(he can be pos 1-2 but it's extremly rare), Disruptor, Bloodseeker and Tusk?

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