7.00 : League of Overthrow

So when the patch came out it was in Chinese for 30 minutes and the best thing you could get from Google Translate was that Crystal House Woman could now learn the Value of Life.

Then when I saw the real notes and some gameplay I got it. Basically the patch drastically changed how the heroes scale with levels. Before, when leveling up to level 16, you'd get your stat gain and one skill point per level. Now it takes the same amount of XP to get to level 18, so already you get more skill points, but the big payoff is that you get one summoner skill on level 10 and one on level 15. Well OK I'm sure there's a dota name for it but the concept is so LoL-ish so I'm going to call them summoner skills. So heroes scale wayyy better with levels now. Of course this is somehow compensated by the fact that they no longer gain attribute bonuses when they're beyond level 16, so they lose two Ultimate Orbs' worth of stats when they get to level 25. But then they generally make up for it by having stat bonuses with their summoner skills. Except when they want to sacrifice these stat bonuses to get some OSfrog stuff like a 3 second cooldown Blink.

So basically the early game is still super stale, you still can't kill anyone because of 700-800 HP heroes and Infused Raindrops (still just as OP) and Faerie Fires.
But then when you get to the mid-game, if you can gain a level advantage, you can kick some serious ***.

So...a fast paced meta which rewards snowballing, glass cannon builds and 3-shotting people. I love it! That's a really welcome change from the 6.84-ish defensive support meta where you couldn't kill anyone...

Don't take me wrong, it's super imbalanced. Some heroes have an amazing talent tree, and some have a dumpster tier one. So the good heroes are going to be the ones with a good talent tree, especially at the first 2 levels. Some choices are so obvious it's not even funny, like Weaver Level 10: +6 Strength OR +30 Shukuchi Damage, or Faceless Void's level 25...

And talents give more flexibility to the heroes :

- Vengeful Spirit is now a 100% legit carry.
- Bounty Hunter carry builds are now legit as well with 1 second cooldown Jinada and +100 damage.
- Divine Rapier core item on Tusk confirmed :)
- Earthshaker carry with +50 base damage and 3 second cooldown totem :)
- Mirana is a legit carry as well. I can no longer complain that a Mirana with Daedalus has the same DPS as a Crystal Maiden with Daedalus and Gloves of Haste. Oh I'll be damned CM gets +50 damage on level 10 so actually I still can :)
- Morphling gets 200 mana at level 10 which is AMAZING. Eblade rush every game.
- Visage has pretty insane scaling now with super-fast familiars. If you want a snowbally #4 support he just might be the one.

Essentially you get heroes with less HP after level 16 and big physical damage steroids (the magic damage steroids are pretty weak unfortunately), so this really advantages nukers in the lategame and glass cannon builds. Me likey.

Well ok there are downsides to the patch too. I can just smell Tera being salty because OSfrog took a massive dump on illusions and made PL and Naga unplayable. Go play Terablyat and CK? Damn even these guys can't even push towers anymore. And Manta Style is probably one of the worst items in the game now. OK that's not an illusion hero patch that's for sure. Now go build Eye of Skadi on Anti-Mage.

But no, seriously, my main concern with the patch is what happened to supports. I'm really not a fan of the +60 gold/minute at level 10 on the talent tree. It's probably overpowered. Literally half of a Hand of Midas for free. It gives gold to supports for doing literally nothing. The mechanic rewards cores for being active on the map, but it rewards supports for being passive, sitting behind their cores all game and never taking risks.
And there's so much wasted potential on supports. I was expecting better scaling for supports, but I was very disappointed. You'd really be hard pressed to find a good support talent tree.

Earthshaker has an amazing talent tree, Visage has a great one, Jakiro's is good, Shadow Shaman has an all right one, but that's really about it. Just look at your typical support like Lion...bleh.

So yeah playing core in this patch is probably going to be insanely fun, playing carry Vengeful Spirit, Lina or Earthshaker or 3-shotting people with Bloodseeker and balling out of control. I just don't get why OSfrog didn't use this opportunity to give better late game scaling to supports (which would hardly impact competitive play), and instead gave supports a free midas (which has a huge impact on competitive, and probably not for the best).

Not sure how to feel about Anti Mage, he lost manta but gain Skadi and a very good Aghs(this could even substitute Manta).Cant see how Faceless Void lvl 25 is strong, its just his old blink with **** animation, as he is not building manta/diffusal anymore, he is weaker against silences and stuns.

now lets see the fun stuff, ck support build is now tranquil aether lens aghs and then you can buy Scythe/Bloodthorn or Assault/Medalion to give his ilusions insane damage, Abbysal now is viable on him as he can pierce magical imunnity level 25.Elder titan and brew were buffed but i am not sure if they are viable or not.The Reworks were fine, especially lycan and Necro, but old builds stay the same, necro is still Blink/Blade mail/OC/aghs but with a better laning phase.

I am happy for morphling, all his 3 builds are strongly viable

Downs of the patch is Phantom Lancer who got nerfed to death and gain a **** aghs nobody will ever build, i am considering playing him as a sup now.Sky who got a even w0orse scepter, and venom who is trash tier and forever will be.

Cuddles for visage and treant getting this buffed.Just need to understand how it work his 2 seconds recharge time

It's a buff. A massive one. Skadi AM is really OSfrog tier. AM's big issue is that he has no disable. And basher isn't a very good disable on him. Permaslow is 10000 times better than hoping for good RNG on bashes. I honestly think you can skip abyssal completely.

6-slot new meta AM build (prepare to be dazzled)



And upgraded boots of travel in backpack. You switch out boots with a damage item outside of teamfights to not have the double BoTs cooldown.

NO BOOTS AM. Full ****** DPS. You don't need boots. You have 3 second cooldown blink, and skadi to disable. Skadi is all you need so you can skip abyssal entirely. You even have butterfly active for MS.

Why is this buff so huge? OSfrog literally gave 2 free slots to AM. Abyssal is no longer needed since skadi is better in every possible way (more HP, way more damage, and even better disable for AM). And another free slot because backpack for boots.

AM aghs, I'm not so sure, the active is a better version of Linken's Sphere but the stats from linkens are better. The return in the only reason to buy this over a linkens. Could be a good item to deal with mass sheepsticks or something.




His old blink, but on a 6 second cooldown, and with the heal on top of it tho. He's potentially one of the most mobile heroes in the game now.




Yup. CK is a really weak carry because of the illusion dumpstering but he can make a solid roaming support. Reality Rift is a reliable -6 armor now. That's insanely good. Plus his aghs.


The Helm of the Dominator rework is IMO OSfrog's way of saying "screw ancient stacking". It sucks on carries, it's an item for zoo pushers like Nature's Prophet now.

But then the new Mask of Madness is a pretty good replacement on guys like Sven or Luna. Espcially Luna, since it no linger amplifies nuke damage. Dimony should be happy.


Don't underestimate Skywrath Mage. He's still terrible as a mid but he'll make a really good snowballing support with the new Rod of Atos root. And his aghs is maybe not as cool at the first one but definitely 1000 times better than the previous one. Now Sky is viable without having heroes like Void or LC in your team.

I like this update some heroes got nerfed and other buffed
talent tree is very good and i do not why you do not like +50gpm on support ? they have to do a lot of things like buying wards gem dust and smoke but the can't even farm how do u want from them keep continue buying these items beside there normal items .
AM aghs is so insane so sick , he dose not just block the skill it also reflect it to the caster with an aghs if this skill have one

No I'm not. Mask of Madness is garbage on anyone who isn't Sniper, Medusa and Sven(the latter only because HotD is even worse now). The bonus damage was never an issue for me at all. The silence is, however.

If you wanna play Luna this patch I'd suggest forget about safelane carry playstyle entirely(because jungle nerf + hotd/mom nerf + trash perks made it really weak) and go meme mid Luna aghs build. Raindrops are still super good, Bottle is easier to refill with new bounty runes, she farms more than fast enough for a mid and her Aghs upgrade is really really good.

That said, I'm looking forward to trying out some heroes besides Luna. That is Brewmaster offlane(not a single mention from you about the new offlane where u pretty much get more exp and sometimes even more farm than mid? Like, seriously, as if Iron Talon wasn't enough, you also have a free fountain every 6 minutes, a free bounty every 2 minutes and an extra camp) with his reworked Drunken Haze. You either make 2 supports camp safelane all the time or enemy carry doesn't get cs at all. Either way, you get a reliable(!) decent Midas timing and proceed to rape everyone while swimming in gold. Also with earth panda's building dmg being buffed yet further and -30s respawn perk the AC-Octarine rat panda might be more than just a meme.

Obvious Midas-Aghs Chaos Knight and also Crystal Maiden that got huge buffs.

Mid Lina might be great again, she has awesome perks and spell flashfarming has been made much better with ancients no longer being spell immune. Eul's-Pike-Skadi- Bloodthorn is just stupid on her, that's 960 attack range, low cooldowns and extreme amounts of damage and control, coupled with nice beef from Skadi and Lance. And its not like that's some unrealistic amount of farm on her.

Also Monkey King, of course, this hero's laning is just stupid and his only weakness is serious lack of survivability. Smells like free matchmaking points especially since ppl have no idea how to play against him yet.

So yea, screw this patch for nerfing my favourite way of playing the best dota girl, but godbless it for giving second life to some heroes whom I wanted to be great for so long.

Such discussions make me happy.

Hamster forgot Lich and his talent tree. Seriously, you need to check that out.

You. Have. No. Idea.

Worst base UI of any game I've ever played
Ruining 80% of my hero pool for no reason
Yet another buff to ****ing supports for the 6th or 7th patch in a row now. How much farther will this go?
Did I mention the UI?
No more attributes levels
It's change for the sake of change without thinking if it's any good.
Oh, and once more with feeling, whoever did the new UI should be hung, drawn and quartered.

I can't even play the new patch, but that's on my end because my computer is dog****.

There's so much to take in here it's kinda hard to know where to begin. I'd be careful about drawing too many conclusions yet as everything has changed so much - you could argue that supports have been buffed heavily by the new talent trees, but you could also argue that being slow to level 10/15 is a massive disadvantage as core heroes will be getting all those buffs a long time before you get yours. Being unlevelled is now a massive issue.

The one thing I feel reasonably confident about is that the new Skywrath Mage aghs is good. Free casts of your abilities could be really strong. I'd say it's definitely better than the old Aghs that was incredibly reliant on your team providing insane amounts of disable - plus all the obvious fun around BKBs, Blade Mail etc.

I like the new patch. It's a lot to get used to, but the gameplay still feels the same. The UI makes the game feel fresh and I'm exited to see how the pro scene handles all the changes and talents!

I really like it too. The new map is really nice and wards feel way more important now because of all the stairs. The UI is ok, the HP and MP bars are too small but I like how it looks.
And as a support player I really like the buffs.