Is Naga Siren support viable as of 6.84?

thats only partially correct imo. i recently had a few games were i was supported by a naga, and i have to say, that she isnt that bad off a zoner. She has high movespeed and good base armor. Her base damage is kind of low, but with Riptide that isnt really much of an issue. Point being, that she actually does surprisingly well against "tanky" melee heroes like Bristle back or Clockwerk. Her big weakness however, are ranged offlaner with ranged nukes and/or CC.

In trilanes you don't care about harassing. In trilanes you don't care about zoning.
In trilanes you care about ONE thing and one thing only : kills.

And Naga is one of the best heroes at getting those kills.

So she's a good support in literally any trilane.

And she can be a situational support for dual lanes with good kill potential. I remember some pretty stupid pubstomps laning Naga with heroes like Ursa, Gyrocopter or Juggernaut. Essentially harass becomes irrelevant when you can instagib anyone who comes near.

Isn't harrassing a Clockwerk with a melee hero suicidal? Given, you go into attack him, and he cogs and Battery Assault and suddenly you are trapped and gave away a solo kill? Especially when you have a poor base HP pool.

That's why she can't really harrass well, because a lot of strong offlaners just laugh at melee heroes trying to zone them.



I disagree - Safe lane tri-lanes care about ensuring the carry gets farm, and the offlaner gets next to nothing, whilst also giving the supports a certain amount of reliable gold and exp. Kills are a bonus, not the outright aim, except it a few cases where you have extremely deadly support pairings that needs to make kills happen. (But even then, it's usually in conjuction with rotations) It's only aggresive tri-lanes that truly need kills to be viable.

Sure, she has a good lockdown spell to allow you to get these kills, assuming that you've got the damage from other sources. But she again, can't punish some of the better offlaners for playing in your face, like Phoenix for instance mocks her, since he can still Icarus Dive through the root I believe (I've never seen the interaction, so I'm just going by the wiki, apologies if I'm wrong) , and Fire Spirits laugh at Melee heroes. And that's terrible because Phoenix having a good start wins games.

I don't know, I just think she's much too greedy a support to make the laning compromises necessarily worth it compared to the other options.

naga is a very strong tri on tri hero, she was very popular durging TI3 where lanes were very static, and a lot of the draft revolved around if someone would agressive trilane and who would have the stronger lane.
then 6.79 hit and she suddenly fell off to the suprise of everyone, and it was purely because supports needed to start moving around the map.

as far as the build goes, i dont like it. why would you take stats instead of your nuke that also has scaling minus armor?
also skipping early mirror image is a bad idea, even as a support. sometimes its really good to get it pre six since you can scout, block pulls, extend your nuke AOE/range, block, etcetera....

besides you are already pretty tanky against right click with your massive armor, and you movespeed allows you to escape.

also i dont know why you would get drums as a support naga, you dont need mana besides arcanes, and it is way too expensive for an item that does very little apart from giving stats that you dont benefit much from.

for early item options, magic stick/wand, urn, medallion.
midgame pickups: force, blink, vlads, mek, pipe. anything that benefits your team. hell, you can even go for radiance if you are getting a lot of farm as a 4 position. 30 min radiance is still great on support naga, since it turns you into a 4th core, and not just any core, since carry naga is one of the best lategame carries there is.

This ^

3 vs 1, you have 2 other Heroes to Zone with, and any Minus Armour makes your ability to Zone 3 vs 1 much, much more powerful.

As Hamster says, Tri vs. Tri isn't about Zoning, it's about getting Kills and preventing Kills at lvl1. Ensnare is a great Tri vs. Tri Ability since it does both quite well, even at lvl1.

...but she'll never replace Venomancer when it comes to stupidly effective Dual Lanes <}3

Naga is probably one of the best supports at moving around the map, because Ensnare is so insane.

I get stats because, although naga has a lot of armor, she has no HP. Her maximum mana is also poop, so stats can accommodate both of those. I just think that stats are better over more levels in Riptide, because it is only the difference between -2 and -3 armor, and 30 damage. It's mana cost also goes up.

She is tanky to physical damage, but falls dead to magic. Drums gives her the stats that she so desperately needs.

The power of carry Naga Siren is that she is 6-Slotted at 40 min. After that, she falls off really fast. If you don't get that Radiance by 25 min, it probably isn't worth it except for the miss chance.

I just look at skills. Ensnare is a 2/3/4/5 second disable. Half the reason why you would run a defensive trilane is so that you can rotate out supports to gank their mid or safe lane while keeping your carry safe. Insane amounts of disable is essential to getting that job done. That is why Lion is such a common support. Support naga siren is probably only possible in a defensive trilane with a strong zoning support, because she should be rotating so often. Plus, you should probably pick her as a couterpick to a Queen of Pain, Anti Mage, or any sort of gankable mid.

There are differences between Wave of Terror and Riptide. On Vengeful Spirit, there is mana to support Wave of Terror, because it only costs 40 at all levels. Riptide costs 110 She also doesn't have anywhere better to put her skill points into, because you don't want the aura, you have enough stats, and you are already maxing Magic Missile. The skill build on Vengeful Spirit is, I feel, correct. Naga needs early stats though, can't really support the mana cost for Riptide, and has no money to spend on those stats. Nor can she support Mirror Image, and you are already maxing Ensnare. This leaves stats, which are very efficient on her due to her high armor and mana problems, and mitigates her frailness to magical damage. Although the skills Rip Tide and Wave of Terror are similar, there are reasons for prioritizing as I have.

Her starting STR is really good, but her starting HP is rather bad. Her problem with max HP decreases throughout the game, but I felt it could still use some bolstering. As Naga Siren is indeed an illusion hero with large base movement speed and high armor, the item is very efficient as well. As a item that gives percentage based movement speed and stats, it is, or at least seems and has worked out, exactly perfect.

On Rubick I tend to get Aghanim's Scepter for raw HP instead of Drum of Endurance, not only because of the upgrade, but because it is an efficient HP item, which is half the reason to buy it. As far as early items, you need something for positioning, such as a Blink Dagger or Force Staff. His Null Field makes HP more efficient as well, but you probably shouldn't get Drums for the HP that he needs, because Aghanim's Scepter is so much better.

However, on supports that don't need/don't have/are too poor for an Aghanim's Scepter but instead need early stats like Dazzle and Mirana, Drum all the way.

As far as Refresher Orb goes, in the late game, Naga has the mana pool to support it, unlike heroes such as Faceless Void who have pitiful INT growths. Her first 15 minutes is the only bad time for her, as far as mana goes. I probably should have clarified, but after that 15 min, her impressive (Roughly) 2.0 Int growth starts to kick in. After that, mana regen becomes more important than stats, because they now no longer such **** and you have to cast Mirror Image] and [[Riptide] to push out lanes. Refesher Orb is there basically for double ulti with Aghanim's Scepter.


"then you havent watched enough naga carry games, i would say now that using refresher is more mana intensive she is better lategame then even void for sure, i would only rank her behind spectre and medusa."

Then it hit me: Naga sucks at teamfighting. How so?

Then I realized it is, of course, because she is such a rat. She runs around making illusions and pushing out all the lanes, keeping the enemy from leaving the base, creating an ever-increasing lead in net worth, eventually winning you the game.


That actually made me think of this:
Late game extension for support naga: Scythe of Vyse ---> Radiance.

Become the rat god, without even having to be a carry. Since you don't like Drums of Endurance anyway, you could possibly just spring for the Ultimate Orb, because they give basically the same thing, although a bit more inefficiently. It is, or should be, possible to rush that core and become that 4th core. Your ability to farm the enemy's Jungle without actually even being there makes this significantly easier as well. I should try this. It could be good if you are getting a big lead in the early game through ganks and can afford that fast Ultimate Orb. Even if your team starts to lose later, you can just keep pushing out the lanes from the fountain, making it impossible for them to take high ground. Your illusions can also probably steal enemy creeps and pull them into jungle camps, like Treants. That tends to just stop pushes in their tracks.

Must try this. Some other day. This took like, 2 hours to write.

When you make a build, you have to be convinced that this is the way that you can get the right balance of damage, sustain, utility, and survivability by buying the most efficient items possible in a way that the hero synergises well with. Many people have different opinions too, which makes writing guides hard. Not everyone will agree. Not everybody has to, though. As long as it helps you win, that is all that matters.

the multi=posts, post reply spams and non-edits are killing me :P

anyways, support naga OP, nothing can touch her.

bkb through disable ensures that Juggernaut/ Lifestealer can no longer not die in ganks.Armor reduction + disable ensures that unavailability of mana is never much of a big deal, you can hit them to death.

high armor, amazing movement speed and low cooldown super-utility skills.She is support incarnate.