Worthy Ag's Scepter Upgrades:

Apologies if there's a better section for this, but General seemed pretty good for it.

Basically I want to see and discuss peoples opinions on which Hero's have worthwhile Ag's Scepter upgrades, and thus like to buy the Scetper, and which are basically just garbage. And perhaps more daringly, which you think is the best upgrade, and which is the worst (In your opinions of course)

I mean, I'll start with one of each i my eyes:

A worthwhile upgrade for me is definately Shadow Shaman. Adding 30/40/50 damage to the wards is huge, and turns them into all but garunteed towers or kills upon dropping them. Given that the 10 of them hitting simultaneously when the Wards are upgraded deals around 1275 damage, which is a crazy amount of Physical damage.

Whereas on the other end of the Spectrum a less useful one, that personally I don't think is ever worth the gold is Nature's Profit: The initial damage of Wrath of Nature gets increased by 15/30/50, and it can hit two more targets. Now, because Furion likes to play spilt push, and his strength comes from that + the damage items you build on him, his ultimate isn't vastly important to him (I mean, it's still good, but it's not what he relies on the most), it's not exactly a great way to spend the money.

So DOTAfire, please discuss.

Good Aghs upgrade: Tiny Long story short. More damage, and cleave ability.

Bad Aghs upgrade: Luna Usually you want more tank and damage on her. Her true strength comes from her bouncing glaives and not her ult.

Good Aghs upgrade: Meepo Adds another Meepo and stats from items onto all Meepos.

Bad Aghs upgrade: Invoker Seriously, not even the pros can pull of constant Invoker spell swapping. So wasting the money on the Aghs when it can go to something like Sheepstick or Euls is kinda of bad.

I do not agree on Invoker Aghanim's Scepter upgrade. It's pretty common and there's a reason for it. There is a huge difference between 5 second and 2 second cooldown. Mana cost removal isn't that important.

Invoker is a caster and he has many spells, so using all of them in a short amount of time is crucial, and yes, people can swap spells constantly. Invoker is not for everyone, apparently.

One of the best Scepter upgrades are for Brewmaster, Warlock, Witch Doctor, Disruptor, Earthshaker.

Good are Ancient Apparition, Bane -> with Black King Bar, Venomancer, Keeper of the Light - but absolutely countered by Night Stalker. Necrophos's upgrade is also very good, but underrated I guess.

I personally hate Agh's upgrade on Juggernaut, Axe, Outworld Devourer and the most - Faceless Void - basically a wasted slot.

Can you imagine Aghanim's Scepter upgrade on Riki or Morphling? Maybe it will be like with Tinker - other abilites will be improved?

Which pros have you been watching? You might be having eye problems, get LaseC.

Dendi and S4 mainly. I find their speedy builds to be much more useful. Especially with Phase boots, drums, Euls, Force Staff, Scythe, and Midas. And switch out Midas for necros for push, refresher for a full reset of your better spells, orchid for even more control, dagon for the lulz, bkb just for spell survivability.

The list goes on.

Another problem with Aghs is that you will only ever get the full benefit of it on him when he's max level. Seeing that you will mainly be going either Quas/Wex or Quas/Exort. So either your control or your damage output will be gimped from those spells.

That is why you generally get aghs as a CORE EXTENSION, it is pretty strong for a lvl 16 invoker, yes you can reap the benefits as soon as level 16, no need for a level 25 to use it.

S4 doesnt commonly play invoker, Dendi uses invoker for the lulz ( puppey doesnt like dendi invoker, so he doesnt draft it often).

Try watching a GOOD invoker player like grimorum, iceiceice, yamateh, etc.

Ancient Apparition definitely. Silencer's is also pretty good, Clockwerk, Huskar (65% HP damage every 4 seconds?), Disruptor, Enchantress, Dark Seer, Witch Doctor, Venomancer, Tiny, Omniknight - all make their heroes considerably stronger and better.

I don't personally have an issue with the Juggernaut or Razor ones - they're midgame carries and those upgrades are pretty good. Faceless Void and Outworld Devourer may consider them, it really depends on the situation and their role in that game. E.g. an offlane Void, and/or ones who's allies have considerable DoT that Chrono helps.

Bad ones - Ogre Magi, it's pretty awful all told. 4200 gold to be able to use your basic stun twice, at the cost of 60% of your current mana? Meh, no thanks. I wouldn't really touch Luna's or Gyrocopter's either.

usually, aghs on Enigma isn't worth it.

I did pick it up once when the enemy team had
Pudge
Bristleback
Axe
Razor
Phoenix
...I never said their draft was good.

These are pretty much the only 2 Heroes where Aghanim's Scepter is Core...no wait, forgot Viper <3

Clockwerk, Ancient Apparition and Keeper of the Light come close, but it's not neccessarily the 1st major Item you want on them.

As for the worst, there's one that actually even worse than Luna's....Outworld Devourer -_-

@Sando, learn math pls, a Casual Mystic Staff increases his Ulti Damage more than Aghs 8{(

...can't be arsed with finding that thread where I did the Math on it...Hades haaaalp!!!

I'd say it's more a case of needing a Refresher Orb to make the most out of it. They're kinda redundant without the other, so game would have to go Late, AND you'd have to have the Farm for both. Mostly useless, but always fun to see. <3

Some players can make the most out of Afghs Refresher though, obligitory Cookvoker link below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1Uf18y6ljM

I like scepter on Keeper since the buff. Viper and Clockwerk really benefit from it if you can grab it early, but it becomes less important lategame. Tiny pretty much has to have one if you want him to stay relevant as the match rolls on. Razor is another who it's better on early, but it stays useful as a pushing item throughout the game I guess. Lich's is cool if you have the means to keep the enemy team in one place. Unlimited bounces = RAMPAGE.

As much as I love Enigma, I don't ever buy it on him. If the other team is just all Str heroes then I guess, but you're better off with a sheepstick 9 times out of 10. On Invoker it just depends on how fast your fingers are I guess.

Special mention for Necrophos. He has one of the single most useful lategame scepter upgrades, imo. Not only can you stop an enemy carry from buying back, but you also extend their respawn time by a very considerable percentage.

I do have a question that I've been meaning to look into for awhile. Is Tinker's scepter upgrade any good? I know what it does and stuff, but is it really worth it? Most teams pick up BKB's vs a Tinker anyway, and he shifts from a nuker to a utility lategame most of the time. I just feel like you could get another active instead of giving a relatively minor buff to you other abilities.