What to do if your losing a lane, badly.

Hello all,

OK, this is difficult to share, as it is comfortably my worst game. But, in the name of self improvement! http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/948621894
This is from a recent game when i was playing as Shadow Shaman and i was safe (with Dire) laning with a Riki. We were up against a Templar Assassin and Silencer. Instantly the signs were bad.

The other lanes were Viper vs Pudge Mid and Spirit Breaker and Troll Warlord vs Drow Ranger and Faceless Void.

I thought the draft was ok, seeing as Silencer would have to be played as a Support (though preferably not in my lane!), but it doesn't even seem like they bothered. They went very aggressive quickly. I spent nearly all my early money (i'm talking first 10/15 minutes) counter warding. The Riki was dreadful. He only ever went in close at dangerous times which led to us getting wiped as i tried to help him out. His last hitting was non-existent (ended the game with less than 30). I'll admit to a couple of rash moves myself, when annoyed it happens.

I was so under-leveled and poor i couldn't have an impact on the game, which, inevitably, let to "team mates" blaming me for the loss. I mean i take some responsibility as we did feed, hard. But i think the Riki is at least as much to blame as me.

For context, i didn't get my Arcane Boots till a stupid time, after 20 minutes i think. I ended the game 1-15-7 (awful, i know). The Riki was 5-15-9, hardly any better for a character who is useless unless killing. The Troll wasn't that much better at 9-13-7.

In that situation what do i do? I tried to harass to give him some farm, i tried to counter-ward, i even, briefly, attempted to take the farm so it wasn't being wasted (the rash moves i spoke about earlier...). I didn't want to leave the lane so he would get steamrolled, but i eventually did. Should i have left earlier and made an aggressive Tri?

Or after all that was it just me being useless?

Romark

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/947162899

bane insists on going mid but finally accepts going top with lycan and is the worst bane i have ever seen.

enigma jungling does a pretty good job but no scythe as he needs that ****ing Radiance right?.

lycan is a little ***** who cant dive and wastes a lot of ganking opportunities.

pudge cant handle a good hook as usual.

and poor ol' Anti mage is left to solo the hard lane.against Legion Commander and Lion. how do i survive? hit n run.

still better farm than that aweful safelane lycan bane combo against Shadow Fiend and Puck

and you think your game was worse?atleast you didn't have hope. I did. It hurt.

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/947162899

Well just based on the picks you guys weren't going to have a good time anyways so what your lane needed was to survive until level 6 and start pushing/ganking or ask for ganks from Spirit Breaker. You won't be able to out-harass Silencer since Curse of Silent spam will rekt your lane and you really need Spirit Breaker to charge at someone (Silencer is easier to kill) to help your lane win.

If you want to somehow win your lane then you have to go all-in since you won't be able to out-harass them. If that's not what you want to do then stand back in range for exp and try not to get afflicted with Curse of Silent. With such high mana-costs, you won't be able to spam your spells at all. Riki should be ok since his stealth will provide good regen but don't expect him to be super farmed during the laning phase. Spirit Breaker need to help you between levels 1-6.

Shadow Shaman is poor zoner/harasser since he has high mana cost spells, poor movespeed, and low attack range. If you don't have an additional support with you that zones better like a Leshrac or Skywrath Mage then don't pick Shadow Shaman unless you're doing a push strat; he is a really weak pick for that zoner/harasser role. Shadow Shaman is great at committed pushes and committed ganks/counter-ganks so focus on that strength. Until you hit level 6, don't try to 1v1, focus on stacking the big camps so one of your cores can farm it.

Leaving the lane is fine if you make it productive, buy a smoke and gank lanes especially if your lane couldn't farm. Riki should be able to survive and get a small bit of farm but don't expect him to have much farm for the next 20 minutes.

Next time try pushing down towers with Serpent Wards and your creep wave when enemy heroes are too busy attacking your teammates, you'll either get a tower or deal some damage and have an enemy tp to defend; making it easier for your teammates to fight a 4v4 instead of a 4v5 if a fight breaks out.

Max Ether Shock first, it deals a good amount of damage, has good range (can be longer range if you use its mechanic correctly) and hits more targets as you level it up. Ether Shock is really good at quickly clearing out waves and hits harder than most basic spells.

So the build you want to follow is: Q > E > Q > W > Q > R > Q > W > W > W > R > E > E > E > stats > R

Level 1 Shackles is good enough and has a really long disable duration at level 1 but the problem is that it makes you stationary and it has a low cast range. This is one reason why you max Hex instead because it's instant and has longer cast range.

Shadow Shaman is a great support in a lane designed to get kills but a very poor support in a passive lane. That's why you see him picked mainly as a trilane support, as a dual lane support he needs follow-up to get kills efficiently. For example you'll have a great time if you dual lane him with an Ursa, Juggernaut or Gyrocopter, but if you dual lane with a Riki you'll just get wrecked, Riki is not really known for his early lane presence xD

Generally zoning/harassing supports are better suited to dual lanes.

Your dual lane was no match for Silencer essentially. You can't win this lane. In a case like this you can just let Riki solo (he needs XP anyways, and he has regen), and go gank other lanes, especially mid. Pudge is a pretty easy gank at low levels, especially with a Viper mid in your team.

To me, the first thing you have to do if you're losing all your lanes is group up as five and push down a tower as soon as possible: I found my team going 0-5 countless times, but getting a tower or two rebalanced all the gold and experience. If your lane is the only one losing, just don't give up and play defensively; asking for a gank might also help.

Still, with the new comeback mechanics, the best way to recover from a bad early game is stalling until you manage to win a teamfight and your carry gets farmed, provided your team's carry is harder than your enemies'.

Yeah, i tried to get someone else to pick someone with a disable (i urged Death Prophet for the silence and push). But, it was in vein. I like picking Shadow Shaman against Faceless Void. It's sort of an insurance in case the other disable/silence doesn't get him, i can Hex him in the void so it does nothing. Though, obviously with this draft this didn't quite work. Although, his actual kills from his Chronosphere were pretty low.





I wanted to go push, and picked SS early to try to force that, but they just picked whoever they wanted. No communication, nothing. So i was kinda forced into the role.
Spirit Breaker was doing what i see a lot of at this level, charging with no prompt or warning. He would often get there too early or too late. And we got minimal support from him.

I should have roamed more. I know he's a good ganker, i just got caught up in not abandoning the lane. That's something i need to improve on in general, i tend to stick to my lanes too much unless warding.



Never thought of counter pushing by myself. I'll bear this in mind for future games (though, hopefully none go quite this way!).

OK, rush Ether Shock more. Will do. I normally try to balance them a little. Makes sense to max the nuke when it's useful though...
Also, thanks for backing me up on the Hex vs Shackles debate me and my friends have! I always max Hex first but they always want more Shackles. Not sure why a second Shackles found it's way in in this game.



I'm not sure this would have been possible in this game. There was no communication (except "OMFG N00B!"), so they would have just ignored this.
Though i see what you mean, we were getting battered individually so grouping would have been for the best.

Thanks, i'll bear all this in mind for future games!

Romark

analyse my game please!

Very difficult situation, as Nubtrain said, Silencer is really bad in lane for a Shadow Shaman, and Templar Assassin isn't very vulnerable to your abilities. Without having watched the game, I'd be thinking in this situation you need to go elsewhere:

1) Riki can go permanently invisible and just XP leach, he'll get more XP if you're not there, and he's getting no farm regardless of whether you're there or not.

2) Losing one lane (even the safe lane) isn't catastrophic if you can do better in the others. Shadow Shaman is a great ganker with a lot of disable, try to make things happen elsewhere.

I'd also be wary of getting into a warding/counter-warding war with the opposition if you're struggling badly for gold and haven't got anyone else to help you out. While vision is very important, feeding badly due to a lack of items or being able to step up the ward war due to lack of gold is a bad idea. Assuming equal skill, the richer support will win.

Do what I'd call "passive" warding - pick less obvious places where you won't be seen warding, and they're unlikely to counter-ward. Yes, you lose the best warding spots, but at least your team has some vision up, and you're not pouring your meagre gold down the drain in a pointless exercise.

The warding war wasn't even over good spots! I was using Sentry Wards in lane as they were singling out Riki when invis. This is what started it. It did put me behind early. Had to delay my Brown boots, which didn't help the gank situation! I need to avoid this in future, definitely.

if your lane goes to **** or your farmer sucks, just leave him alone. you are not doing anyhing by being there so go roam and gank. shaman is not the ideal hero to do it with but still possible in pubs.