Need General Knowledge About Hard Carries

So I need some information and list from hardest to... softest?




Insane attack speed but, nice passive stun synergy with his insane attack speed, mediocre ganking capabilities, and the ability to manfight with miss chance from Whirling Axes (Melee), and early solo roshan with Morbid Mask
Questions:
-Why isnt he popular?
-Is he a terrible carry?
-How hard it is to outcarry him?



Nice AoE auto attack, **** midgame(or so they say), terrifying at late game. Mana shield almost doubles her health, basically unstoppable late game monster
Questions:
-Why is her midgame bad?
-How hard it is to outcarry her?
-How hard can she carry?
-Why do most people dont like her?



Anti spellcaster, flash farming with Battlefury. Resisted nukes, and execute low mana enemies with Mana Void. Also known to be a splitpusher. Good escape.
Questions:
-Why do so many people liked him so much?
-How hard it is to outcarry him?
-Is he a good late game carry?




Terrible laning presence (or so they say), powerful midgame ganker and late game teamfighter. Unusual escape and/or chase with Spectral Dagger, hard to focus.
Questions:
- Dispersion seemed weak (22%)
-She cab dominate the mid/late game, but is her early game suck?
-Why is she such a hard carry?
-How hard it is to outcarry her?
-Why do so much people dont like her?




Such a popular carry with annoying and boring ultimate, Chronosphere. Backtrack is very good to any forms of damage. So much people loved him.
Questions:
-Why do SOOOO many people loved him?
-How hard it is to outcarry him?
-Is he overrated?



Outworld Devourer
Insane midlaner that can reduce mana with ease. Hard countered by Black King Bar, but high DPS if uncountered. Can dominate midgame, but lategame damage is still insane.
Questions:
-Is he better off in safelane?
-How hard it is to outcarry him?(other than BKB if possible answer)
-How would he get Ez farm in mid?






Well thats for the current questions, hoping to see some quality answers. Please do make a lost of the hardest carries from the ones I mentioned above.

Ty all!

Void isn't actually loved as a hard carry so much as an offlaner with a utility ulti. He can transition from that role into a hard carry, but it's generally not why he is picked up. It makes him versatile since he's a hero who can thusly impact the entire game post level 6 as opposed to just being a hard carry

Depending on who you ask, you'll get different answers about is he overated. Some people in the pro scene like Clairvoyance do think he's overrated for sure.


I think Medusa is generally thought of as the hardest carry in the game (Team-fight wise at least), because she needs to get like Linken Sphere and Manta Style and another item most of the time in order to really carry. Despite having a really powerful teamfight ulti, her actual damage output and ability to tank is so low before those items that fighting with her becomes a bad thing.

So yeah, her mid-game is kinda awful just because other Carries come online long before her, and she can't really snowball like others have the potential to the alleviate that.

Best way to out carry her is either split push (Which can be hard when she just eats creep waves and illusions), or have enough disables that you can cut her down before she can fight back. Since I don't think Medusa normally builds BKB?

Others I can't really talk about, but I don't think Outworld Devourer is a hard carry? I mean, he's scariest in the mid-game when his damage out-put is just huge relative to other people I think?

Let's start here. OD is not a hard carry. One off the list.


Troll Warlord :

He's fallen off because Battle Trance cooldown was increased by 10 seconds.He can manfight well as you said, but he is extremly susceptible to kiting, since he cannot actually slow people like a blink Ursa. He is not hard to outcarry at all because he is single target focused. Maelstrom helps a lot with that in early to mid game, when he operates the best.


Medusa :

She is 99% useless in the midgame (1% left goes towards the scarce usage of Stone Gaze). She just cannot fight properly until she gets a linken's and a manta, that is around 30 ~ minutes, while also adding up the boots. She basically needs stats, but once she reaches the "I rek face" status, there's only 2 more heroes that can actually kill her.


Anti-Mage :

People love(d) him so much because he farms extremly fast given a quick Battle Fury. His splitpush is extremly good. He has some teamfight presence with Mana Void. His strength lies in his farming speed, the faster he farmes, the faster he can end the game. (same as Alchemist). He is a terrible late game carry, and will lose to any carry in a fight.


Spectre :

Her laning presence is abyssmal, Pudge/ Doom level of pressence (that's like none), just because she cannot do anything. What is she going to do, just use Spectral Dagger twice and then cry about being manaless? Spectral Dagger is ****ty enough anyway, damage is abyssmal. She's a different type of carry - a damage sponge. People throw stuff at her, not at her team, but surprise, she does not die, and reflects most of it back to the enemy team. Just like Medusa, she suffers from the uselessness syndrome - she's better than Medusa, but worse than any other choice you could make.


Faceless Void :

He's probably top of the food chain in carry department, can even wreck a Medusa easily given some alone time in Chronosphere. He is deemed very good because Chronosphere has insane utility towards the team, while boosting his fighting capabilities. It's extremly hard to ourcarry him if he knows what's up in the game.


One that you did not mention though :

Lone Druid

I think he might be the best carry in the entire game, capable of getting 12 slotted. Just insane potential, insane lane presence, very good teamfight, tanky, can disable via Summon Spirit Bear, can push, can manfight. Only thing is, people prioritise putting items on the bear early game, while the druid remains very vulnerable. My advice to such people is to just get random cheap items on the druid that can benefit them on the long run ( Cloak for example).

Well since I'm a support player I don't really know stuff but I do know a bit about void.
-People are addicted to MOM and it's legit on him.
-He is almost impossible to outcarry once he gets 6 slotted but if he misses 1 chrono then he's basically dead.
-It's fun to backtrack Laguna Blade or Thundergod's Wrath, much huehue.

My thoughts :

First, "hardest carries" doesn't make that much sense because there is teamfight carries and 1v1 carries. For example some people can say that Medusa is a harder carry than Morphling but in a long game of Dusa vs Morph I'd bet on Morphling anyday, because Morph has better split push and better mobility. Carries who focus on teamfights are not comparable with carries who focus on split push and 1 v 1 fights.

- Troll Warlord : There used to be Troll picks in competitive focused around Battle Trance combos, but his ult was honestly OP and it was nerfed to "just good" level. He's still picked from time to time in competitive but he's played mainly as a semi-carry/utility hero. He's still a really good pub carry though, insane single-target DPS, decent ganker with a Shadow Blade, Sange and Yasha or even Blink Dagger to partially solve his kiting problems. He's a hard carry for 1 vs 1 fights but he does have some problems in teamfights because he is purely single-target. Lots of utility for his team though.

- Medusa : the hardest teamfight carry in the game. With good farm, teamfighting against her is essentially impossible. On the other hand her mid-game is complete garbage, because she has no disable and she can't gank, and her teamfight DPS is still really weak until she has minimum 3 lategame items. The only thing she can do in the mid game is farm, farm, and farm again, luckily enough she's really good at it. Some people find her boring because there is only one way of playing her, AFK farming for 50 minutes and then finishing the game. Hero is completely mono-dimensional but really good at what she does. She's one of the very rare hard carries who can effectively counterpush, which is a huge advantage.
EDIT : Yes, Linken's Sphere is only good if it actually blocks important spells and can replace Black King Bar in this game, otherwise Helm of the Dominator to stack ancients into Manta/Skadi/BKB is the better build. Linkens isn't core on any hero and is situational on every hero.

- Anti-Mage : he's far from being the hardest carry, and outcarrying him with similar farm is pretty easy, but he farms EXTREMELY fast. His strength is to get 6-slotted around 40 minutes and then ending the game. People used to like him because of his insane mobility / splitpush potential. Kind of lacks damage output in the very late game though, I often sell my Battle Fury for a Daedalus when I'm 6-slotted.

- Spectre : definitely in the top 3 in hard carries. Why? Essentially because she ruins the enemy initiation by creating complete chaos in teamfights. Spectre is actually pretty poor at manfighting, but she can jump instantly on the key teamfight heroes in the enemy team and burst them down. Her skillset deals a ton of spill damage to the whole enemy team (she's sitting at the top of the hero damage charts) and a late-game Spectre will get double kills on supports just by pressing R. She's generally pretty popular in pubs, even before 6.82, and now she's really popular in competitive as well. Her laning stage sucks, but her ability to gank even early in the game makes up for it, you can see her like Night Stalker or Pudge if you want. Her early game sucks if you play passively, but it can be really strong if you gank actively with your team as soon as you hit level 6 whenever Haunt is up. Depending on how you play her, she can either come online at 7 minutes when she hits level 6, or AFK farm for 45 minutes, all depends on your build she's incredibly flexible.
Dispersion isn't weak, it's actually a better skill than backtrack in every way, because backtrack only blocks 25% of damage, but dispersion blocks 22% of damage but also reflects it to the WHOLE enemy team in an AOE. It's not only a defensive skill, it's also a huge AOE nuke for teamfights.

- outworld devourer : he wins mid against any hero who needs mana to be effective in lane, and loses mid to heroes who don't. He has a few counters in lane like Razor, Huskar or Kunkka which is why we don't see much OD mid these days, if he gets counterpicked mid you need to go safelane with him which is perfectly legit (used to be very common when OD was popular in competitive). He *would* be a hard carry if Black King Bar didn't exist, but he has issues against BKB, silences, and kiting.

Troll is a pushing carry. Outside of pushing (where he's very strong) he's an average manfighter and mediocre to bad everywhere else.

Dusa's not nearly as bad as some people like to say. Midgame is bad because she has no control, not even a slow. Stone gaze depends on allied setup or dumb enemies. Among the best in late game though. She'd be considered a lot better if more people went straight for dps items instead of blindly buying linkens every game.

AM is a fast farmer and that's it. If he gets space, he dominates midgame, otherwise he's worthless. Not actually a very hard carry. If he's not close to a full item ahead, he's actually behind. Obviously this means he's not very good late, because 6 slotted AM is weaker than a lot of carries 5-slotted.

Spec is a pretty standard carry, great mid-late and mediocre early. Haunt lets her contribute all game without ever having to leave the jungle/lane. Struggles against mass BKB in very late game.

Void's more anticarry than carry. He ults things and they die. Strong at all stages of the game. Incredibly dependent on chrono.

OD's not a carry at all, he's a farming mid. Shut down completely by BKB as well as specific heroes (Nyx, Pugna, Silencer). Majority of his impact comes from a midgame level advantage, so he falls off quite a bit in lategame

Think these guys have summed up the individual heroes pretty well for you. I'd add that generally hard carries are some mix of:

1) Farming speed. The faster you farm, the faster you get levels and items. This is where AM is so scary - Blink + Battle Fury and he can be level 25 and 6 slotted well before almost any other hero (possibly Meepo?). The likes of Spectre can also farm all the time, and just Haunt to turn up at fights.

2) Stats and passives. Strong agility gain scales extremely well with items, and some passives are very effective - Mana Shield, Dispersal or Backtrack for example. With sufficient farm they outdamage and outhit other heroes.

3) Teamfight presence. Good teamfighters help a lot in the mid and late game, swinging these important fights for their team. For example, Chronosphere + strong AOE damage, Stone Gaze, Haunt etc.

4) Mobility/Split Push. It's very hard to beat some heroes if you can't get your lanes to their base, or they're chewing at your barracks while you're trying to take theirs. E.g. Naga Siren, Soul Keeper etc.

All hard carries tend to suffer early game, and midgame to a lesser degree. Some can help out, others can only farm and hope their team can hold on. Hard carries can also struggle against effective "snowball" carries - e.g. heroes who farm heroes rather than just creeps. If these heroes are successful, they can outlevel and get slotted before the hard carry is ready to fight.

That's exactly a case with Sven, which is a great snowballing carry. He will get a double kill on lane, then farm some creeps like a madman with Great Cleave for few minutes, get Black King Bar and some lifesteal and he is ready to go. Faceless Void just won't be able to kill him in Chronosphere that early, and Sven should beat him anytime before 25 minutes.

This is how some people think of hard carries. They point out Sven, Luna, even Huskar and say: "Look at that damage! Void is ****". They cannot look at this in other, wider perspective.

Has anyone seen hard-carry Dazzle? I'm not even kidding... Well, maybe I'm just stupid.

He has high primary-attribute gain.
He can keep up high DPS for 5 seconds longer.
He has armour reduction to deal more damage.
He has attackspeed slow.

Back on topic, I think you missed Ember Spirit.

A few situational carries would be:

LC (IF she wins a LOT of duels)
Lifestealer?
PA (depends which build and if she's lucky)

and you missed my favourite:

Morphling.

http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/hero-hierarchy-8901


this is the best idea for you of what heroes fall where ...