Worst item per cost...

What they need to do with vanguard is make it so you can disassemble it.

For example you can get a vanguard on spectre if you need to survive and regen, and you can take it apart to build a heart and refresher orb later. That way that stupid stout shield doesnt FORCE you to sell the other 2 good items for half their price.

Fair point in purely gold terms, but it compares very well with Ultimate Orb, and has the aura. It's also a question of gold efficiency versus inventory efficiency. (which is the usual balance - otherwise we'd all be packing 150 Iron Branches.)



Unless you're Tinker...in which case it's an extra 800 damage every few seconds.

I'd agree on the points on Vanguard - it's not actually that bad an item itself...the problems relate to other, better items, and the lack of an upgrade path. It's basically dead money, which isn't great for a 2000g+ item. Personally I think they should rework the Heart of Tarrasque buildup - Vanguard + Reaver + Cheap Reciepe - that could make it fly, or make it you extract the parts and use them as suggested. Or both.

Oh, oh! I made something similar to this few months ago! Take a look! I think the disassemble idea is really good as well, and it is really needed.

But... then how are we supposed to Nyx people come midgame?

Nyx is the only hero I upgrade, or even build, Dagon on though. Plus, if you upgrade Dagon, the mana cost and cooldown become low enough that is actually accelerates your farm considerably. 800 damage is more than most creep's health pools.

The thing with nyx is, you already have a lot of burst, and for close to the same price as a level 2 dagon, you can get a blink dagger and a force staff, More burst, or two ways to chase, two ways to escpae, and two ways to land your stun. What is the better the deal, I mean dagon is a just a really expensive finger of death at level 5.

the whole idea behind nyx is that he does all his damge lockdown in the space of maybe 3 seconds.

plus going into mid game around 25 mins dagon level 2 is basically core (along with blink and forcestaff). but after you get lvl 2 you should be looking for utility items because soon heroes will be able to survive your burst.

i like the

brown > arcanes > dagon 1> blink > force staff > dagon 2 > ultimate orb > Sheepstick > ethereal blade > dagon 3 4 5.... by this time if your still playing its cause you cant be bothered finishing.

i dont see the point of drums or ring of aquila atm. then go no where and provide nothing in terms of gold spent. make them upgradable into late game somehow.

They don't solve mana issues, but they make the problem much more manageable while giving a decent early game item that gives a lot of stuff that you need early-mid and serves as a bridge between early game items that allow you to be active early on and your late game items. It's particularly useful on heroes like Kunkka and Ember Spirit imo.

I guess letting them branch into a different more late-game oriented item would be cool, but where's the fun in that?

Whats so bad about Vanguard.... in dota 1 when I was realy really noob I bought it on every hero....

Anyways I still buy Vanguard on Dragon Knight as my core item,its a habit I do in pubs even tough everyone says its horrible xD.
I buy it because of the extra health and health regen but a heart grants more than a Vanguard so yeah :/ I wish Vanguard can be disassembled so that I can build a heart easier later lol.

Please, no.

lol my ******ed habit xD
I still like the idea of him of tanking all the damage from creeps,heroes and towers for better push looooool

I tank the tower and let my creeps do the pushing so that the creep wave will get stuck pushing 1 tower and yeah lol.