The Updated Stats & DPS Calculations

If you like no boots builds, do Windranger. With blink as positioning item, 335 base MS and Shukuchi, she's not only a top tier DPS'er, but also a prime candidate for no boots dota.



(of course normally you'd get BKB but you didn't give a BKB to the others)

Did I mention that WR needs a nerf? WR needs a nerf.

Anti-Mage build is pretty suboptimal. Abyssal Blade is pretty unnecessary because it gives no damage and is redundant with skadi. Replace it with Monkey King Bar so he can compete with the others.

Windranger doesn't need a nerf, we all know that you hate her for years now Hamster, leave the poor hero alone xD

Interesting calculations Tera, but shouldn't you consider Black King Bar a bit more indeed? Since some of those cores really can't be (realistically) played without it.

I should really stop trying to explain OSfrogness of heroes with words and just challenge people to 1v1 mid :)

1) You should try to explain it even better, since it would help you reflect about them a bit more and avoiding failing most of your predictions in your patch rants and stop you from thinking them out of your own pubs ( Silver Edge OP cause goes through BKB everyone? Poor Man Shield is such a garbage item no one is going to buy it anymore? Bristleback will never be a hero with all these buffs if they don't touch SE - and it goes on...);

2) Yea challenge the support main that played like 5 mid games her entire life to 1v1 you, that's totally gonna prove Windranger is OP xD

How about looking at the hero actual stats for once and talk to people that play it as their main (*cough cough Bukansee cough cough*) to actually improve your analysis and help us all get better quality posts in Dota Fire?

I've been doing "explaining" for years. It often falls on deaf ears.



See? Your list of so-called "failed" predictions proves that point pretty well. Explaining is really not the issue here, since I explained all of these in detail.



"my own pubs"? I haven't played a single pub for 1 year now. Remember my "leaving dota" post?
I only watch games and read patch notes these days.




Even Icefrog agrees that Silver Edge was OP since the item got large nerfs since then.
Silver Edge cost was increased from 4800 to 5550 from 6.87 to now. Name another item whose cost was increased by 750 gold while giving zero additional stats.




I was talking specifically about safe lane carries since they were the main PMS buyers. True, I forgot abnout offlaners, but the fact remains that the change killed the item's viability on a lot of heroes.




Bristle was trash tier for a super long time, at the very bottom of dotabuff winrates at 5K+ for about a year. He's only playable now because of super recent indirect buffs, mostly Heart of Tarrasque and Heaven's Halberd. 7.05 Solar Crest as well. Not to mention his talent tree.
The stuff that made him playable is recent stuff that dates from 7.05/7.06 so what's wrong about me saying Bristle was trash because of SE 6 months ago exactly?
He got huge buffs since then and SE still destroys the hero. What's your point?




Windrun being a better version of Shukuchi is an actual stat.




You mean talk to myself? I played her as my main. WR was my MMR raising hero for like a year. I have 100+ games as her.
I started hating her because I felt super dirty playing her. I realized how cancer that hero can be. Diving T2 towers at level 1 to get first blood while taking no damage simply felt like animal abuse (to frogs). What you people don't understand is that heroes I call OP are generally heroes I played myself and felt super dirty playing.

All I see is that contrary to some, I actually take risks in analyzing the game to predict future metas, all while my critics never take any risks and praise Icefrog and professional players as gods no matter what nonsensical stuff they do with a form of virtue signalling 'modesty' I'll never mock enough.

All I hear is "boo you try to predict the game but you're not always right". Thing is, I never claimed to be always right. You're the ones claiming to be infallible by blindly relying on OSfrog and professional players no matter what they do.
Taking risks is fun. Making predictions is fun. Frog worship is boring, has no balls, and is factually wrong. I choose the first solution and will defend it with the shield of weaponized irony.

I'm not going to raise the point of "if you haven't played Dota in a year, why should we consider your opinion?" because it's a similar line of logic to "you're not a pro player, why are you criticising their play/build?". Analysts exist.

I'm going to mainly point out that Windrun is not a better Shukuchi, for one massive reason - the cooldown. Whereas Shukuchi has a 4 second duration and 6 second cooldown, Windrun has a 6 second duration and 8.4 second cooldown. Now, the thing is, the invisibility aspect of Windrun becomes almost irrelevant when you consider that you don't want to run around not attacking for 6 seconds. In this case, the longer cooldown of the ability makes it considerably worse for evasive invisibility gimmicks than Shukuchi. Now, yes, Windrun has a slow and evasion attached, but this makes it a different ability - not a better Shukuchi.

Ahem, now, explaining the lack of Black King Bar in builds - so far, most of the heroes I've done have been pretty bad with a BKB. The only heroes that commonly build the item that I've calculated thus far have been Tiny and Luna. These calculations have also assumed a very, very lategame setting, when everyone's BKB is down to 5 seconds, and that 5 seconds of spell immunity won't be that much use in a lot of games. There'll be more BKB as I start doing Troll Warlord, Phantom Assassin, etc...

Yeah, I sincerely hope the will to "prove Hamster wrong no matter what" doesn't stoop to that non-point. I'd take advice from a retired tennis player about playing tennis anyday. Note that it would apply to a lot of dota casters as well, and casters really have no qualms about criticizing pro players.

But not on dotafire tho. People are soo modest here, that any criticism of the 'dota gods' is viewed as "arrogance". In fact, people are so modest here that they actively show off their modesty.




Focus Fire has a 10.5 second cooldown. WR only attacks when her ult is up.

What you describe is actually a problem Weaver faces, not WR. When Weaver reveals himself, he has no real DPS. While when WR reveals herself, she blows up any hero in 1 second.

First of all, nice editing there, let's be honest here :) I clearly stated a WR main you could talk to, and it was not me - and you know that, I had just said I never even played mid. Meanwhile you "used to be a WR main that used her on the only patch where she was actually overpowered"? The point remains: https://www.dotabuff.com/players/101983704 - why not talking to someone that's even a DotaFirer that not only has more games than you, but that actually plays the hero now? Just an idea, since you're not experimenting the hero right now yourself, and you can't be really seeing her in competitive where she is not being picked...

As for all of your explanations, a quick answer to all of that: you can go around everything you predicted in years with side way explanations, doesn't make it less wrong or suspiciously biased when you stated it the first time, from patch wishes to patch impressions and analysis. Saying for example that SE was indeed OP because X patches later she got nerfs (unrelated to the big one you always claimed which never happened) is a biased way of looking at something that has a dozen of other explanations, including heroes that used it being buffed and needing rebalance, new items being introduced, etc. And so on. Being wrong sometimes is not bad either, ofc we all are especially if we want to make predictions, that in itself is not a problem (I offer myself in wrong sacrifice: Last patch for example I thought the Dazzle Aghs would be a big deal, turns out no one even ever gets it! I was wrong as fuuuuck). So what is problem? I think it is your analysis seemed to always be skewed by other factors that make it less reliable, and maybe it would be interesting for yourself to try to improve it...

Do you need to be a pro player to do analysis? No, ofc. Do you even need to play Dota to have a better impression of what's going on? I'd say not playing for over a year might not be the greatest thing, but also not gonna go there, you could still make interesting predictions/warnings, etc. And why should we care?

Well, in case you didn't notice, you've been literally the one and only person that always does a patch comment on this site every time a patch come out - what you call cowardice and "not contradicting Icefrog" is all stuff from what, three years ago? Since no one is posting now, it must be. Meanwhile, I don't think you are arrogant at all actually, and certainly not for doubting the developer of a game that is more complex than any other I know and achieved great results throughout the years. I think that's silly, but not arrogant :)

And it's not being modest to not disagree, we have enough personalities to decide what we do or do not agree. I mean, look at this nerfs to my beloved CM, as much as it pains me to say it they were all well deserved and probably more are coming, RIP xD Do I agree with them? A part of me doesn't. Do I think Phantom Lancer could have used some more buffs and he didn't? Yea, also. Just examples.

What is my point? No, I'm not into "proving Hamster wrong no matter what", as you state (we did agree before, multiple times). I'd just like to see actually more people involved in this process, and I know the reasons why most members don't show their faces here: 1) they are discussing stuff over at Discord instead; 2) They think your patch analysis or list wishes are actually always so out of reality but closed in themselves that coming in just to sparkle discussion is gonna be considering "contradicting you", which is just mean and counter-productive, so they stay out of here. Even I am writing stuff right now outside of Dota Fire and on a blog of my own because posting here results in autistic posts with answers from the same 3 people always anyway - and I'd be constantly disagreeing with you and that can be taken the wrong way, I just happen to actually really like Dota analysis as well, I have my favourite and my least favourite analysists as everyone else, doesn't mean any kind of bad personal feelings towards them (there's no "will to prove Hamster wrong no matter what", I promise).

I just commented this time, for example, because you came in on an unrelated post claiming a hero we all know you always hated and wanted to nerf was "OP again". Just as time and time again you got really hasty conclusions on things based on your impressions and not on any kind of data. I think it might be your initial approach that could be changed perhaps: instead of looking at the patch facts from a dry perspective, for example, why not try to think why they happened in the first place? Assuming there must be a reason, you can analyze that reason and agree or disagree more appropriately. So for example, why would Kyphoid change Wind, from a rational point of view? (Answering "because he likes to screw with us doesn't count").

EDIT: Oops, with all of this I forgot to leave my saying on Wind. Why was she buffed? She had like a what, a 46% winrate? (and now she has 47.20%, hardly impressive). And she wasn't being picked almost at all in competitive. Why was she bad? I think because of the fact that right now really popular mids are great against her: Lina, Shadow Fiend, Tinker, all of these out-damage her in lane and can easily threaten to kill her with their heavy magical damage. Why does having Sukuchi doesn't make her OP now? Because in reality you only added her three things: possibility of surviving more in-lane against those counters mentioned, making the supports have to get more detection, which means money preassure, and granting her the ability to maybe gank more succeffuly pre- Blink Dagger (which helps her snowball and it's needed for the hero to be relevant). Apart from this, she is exactly the same hero: if she initiates from invis into someone important and kills him it's because that person was out of position (too far from team mates)/low pubs no good vision on the map, if she escapes team fights where she would die otherwise it's because people are bad enough to not carry Dust of appearence. She was slippery before and still is, that's all.

But this is just my two cents, I promise I'll leave you in peace now :)


As for Tera: Ah, so that's why. I see why you kept BKBs out then. Still... It sounds really impossible to play a hero like Luna late game without a BKB, even down to 5 seconds (5 seconds is enough for an entire team fight to happen anyway), and that is why baiting BKBs out and pushing when they are down, for example, is such a big deal. A stunned Luna is a Luna that can't Satanic and that just dies. So I think it's unrealistic to draw up a DPS build not taking that into account, which kinda hinders the whole idea of the DPS comparison - unless you state "in an ideal scenario where no hero needs defensive items", and in that case you need to switch up other heroes as well. That is still an interesting idea, to know how much they could actually dish out on a full cannon build - and maybe even that in comparison to a realistic mixed build, seeing the differences.

I have do redo Morphling since he just got a BAT buff. Will edit it in very shortly.

Multiply DPS by 1.03.

You're welcome.