6.87 Discussion Thread

Surprise surprise! 6.87 has hit and there is a lot to marvel about!

From 7 new items to Arc Warden nerfs, we've got ourselves this patch.

What are YOUR favourite changes?

There's a lot to digest, especially the new items.

Not sure how much the % magic damage scaling will really matter, it tends to be a small % anyway, and 100 intelligence is a lot of levels/items to get +6%...but it still feels important that it scales at all.

Small changes to a lot of heroes, quite a few value points in skills like Null Field and Curse of Avernus, I like most the minor nerfs/buffs too. It's hard to say how they'll play out as the overall changes will also apply.

Stuff I find especially interesting...

- Is no Blink Aghanim's Scepter Earthshaker now a thing?
- Mirana aghs is interesting...

More later...

Drow Ranger and Silencer rushing Hurrican pike anyone ?
Blade Mail now stacks with armor too ?
CANCER LANCER TIME ?Bots Difussal Basher Vanguard Echo Sabre IS his build ?
Void is now a viable carry chrono independent ? SnY blink and Echo Sabre are the way to go ?

Shadow Fiend aghs change looks interesting, 30 extra right click damage (from extra Necromastery+ Blade of Alacrity), not to mention how it could amp up requiem

OK so let's try to be rational about this and leave the gimmicks aside.

- Ranked all pick bans. I love the idea, even with the hidden implication that OSFrog has finally acknowledged that his game is broken and that ranked pubs are ruled by 4-5 meta heroes every patch because of poor balance. That's a really good thing. Only complaint I have is the randomness aspect, instead of e.g a majority vote. I hate randomness in video games.

- Scan is a smoke counter and a ganking buff, so you can find heroes sitting in jungle or not showing on lanes. I actually like it.

- Slark dota. I am pub playa. I pick Fish. I go safe layne. I rush Silver Edge because I get 15 AGI and 15 INT from it now, not to mention 15 damage and attack speed more than before. I get skadi, BKB and MKB because basher sucks now. Or SnY, or Bloodthorn so that nobody can escape me. I scan enemy jungle every 5 minute to look for food. I dive towers. I have infinite INT and can counter every hero in the game with my itemization.

- Invoker is still broken. Not much more to say there. He got both minor buffs and minor nerfs, while I was expecting MASSIVE nerfs. His late game is even better now.

- Windranger got 2 new items she can play with, maybe even 3 with silver edge. Where are the nerfs again?

- Phantom Assassin is even more dog**** than she was in 6.86. Af if it was even possible. Abyssal Blade was literally the only item that made this hero deal any damage. Now it deals zero damage. Daedalus core item confirmed I guess. Also Stifling Dagger is much weaker. The only point of this skill was to get CS is lane, now the damage is too low in lane to do even that. Trash hero, stay away, there's gonna be 3 silver edges in every game anyways.

- Anti-Mage... Abyssal Blade is an interesting one. I actually consider it a buff. Abyssal no longer deals damage but you can replace Vlads by Vanguard in his build, and get manta/abyssal faster to be in fighting shape with way more survivability which is all he needs in the end. 250 more HP for AM, that's super good.

- Enchantress actually got buffed this patch. Yup, I'm serious. Hurricane Pike is stupid on her. And Bloodthorn = free MKB.

- Arc Warden. Ok, so does that mean that the Tempest Double casting items now puts those items on the main hero on cooldown? If that's the case the hero is trash. At least Necronomicon AW is no longer a thing. So yeah the hero sucks. Or at least is restricted to Radiance/Manta cancer.
EDIT : no, it's just the clone that keeps its cooldown when it's resummoned.

- Mirana : Her aghs sounds only good for farming creeps. It doesn't scale so it's not even an item for support Mirana which would have been a good thing. I say silly gimmick and nothing else.

- Faceless Void is still a horrible carry. No change there, expect to still see the same silly OSFrog offlaner that's immune to harass and nothing else.

- Clockwerk...WHY. Just why. As if this hero wasn't spammed enough already...

- Echo Sabre...I'm extremely meh on that item. It's good on Spirit Breaker I guess, but who else? It's not a carry item, feels more like something for semicarry/offlaners. I guess on Riki maybe?

- Strength carries buffed. That's actually a really good thing of the patch. SnY is pretty sick now on melee heroes, and rightfully nerfed on ranged ones. And armlet 10 armor, yay. Naix, CK, CK, WK, LC...me likey.

- Supports...there are hardly any changes really. Courier is cheaper I guess, but that's ultra minor. Shadow Demon's Disruption is pretty much Wall of Replica now, so that's pretty fun - I'll be picking him but only because he's a fun hero, I really don't think he's good or anything. Jakiro is probably super good in push lineups. Enigma got nerfed because his stun is now purgeable, and there's still gonna be a Pudge in every game and he makes him unplayable because OSFrog BKB piercing stun on hook, so that sucks. Bane and Dazzle are still OSFrog. Crystal Maiden skill build is now officially 4/1/4/1. Winter Wyvern sounds playable without being OP, that's nice. Warlock is now the best lane dominator in dota bar none so he may have his place in dual lanes with hard carries (I hope one day people will understand that Warlock doesn't need aghs/refresher to be useful).

- Earthshaker still needs dagger (@Sando). Because dagger does the same thing as aghs with a better range for half less gold. Still, did he really need a buff? No, he didn't.

My thoughts right now : Slark in every game. Invoker in every game. Windranger in every game. Enchantress still in every game. Pudge still in every game. Strength carries picked a bit. All the heroes that were unplayable in 6.86 (PA, ET, Blood, Bristle, Huskar...) still are in 6.87, Warlock being the only possible exception.

While I salute the effort of buffing strength and intelligence carries...I feel that we're essentially going to see the same heroes as in 6.86. The imbalance level (# of OP heroes, and # of trash heroes) looks a bit worse than before, no improvement here I fear.

Mirana Aghinem's is op. Check out my guide to utilize it!

What about the buffs to Morphling Replicate ? aghs is viable now ?
Also kyfrog just buried doom for good :/

This is my initial guess for possible Meta heroes

CK, Axe, Bristle, DK, Kunkka, Morph, Naga, Riki, Silencer, Timberstorm, WK, Weaver, Dazzle.

Chaos Knight: Armlet Buff, Heart buff, lots of small illusion buffs. Abyssal is more viable on him too.
Axe: Blade Mail buff means you can use it with Berserker's Call and people will actually die. Also, can actually do damage past minute 15.
Bristleback: Abyssal buff is kinda big for him, also the buff to Blade Mail is nice. However, Octarine nerf.
Dragon Knight: Laning is actually approaching the realm of “good” now, plus, Armlet buff.
Kunkka: Armor buff, more mana. He can actually mid now, since I can’t identify a very obvious meta mid.
Morphling: Pretty significant buffs, I can see him picked up with the new 10 armor Terrorblade as the new Zeus-Spectre.
Naga Siren: She has reclaimed the throne of splitpushing, her illusions have damage block now too, and support naga is much better now.
Riki: Actually does real burst damage now, and with diffusal buff, he's looking to be extremely annoying.
Silencer: So, Aghs is now a global slow, Bloodthorn looks really strong on him too.
Timbersaw: The scaling of his reactive armor is throughly insane now, 32 armor and regen when maxed? With the bloodstone buff, he may be back.
Wraith King: Hero's farm rate is now good, especially since Blade Mail was buffed and Radiance was not nerfed.
Weaver: Cheaper Linkens, armor reduction right from laning phase hurts people too. Utility Weaver with Scepter also seems extremely frustrating.
Vengeful Spirit: 2 armor reduction right from lane? No reason to leave the meta now.
Dazzle: Okay, 2 armor reduction from lane + Poison touch + aggro changes = omg, this guy's zoning is now like.. hell.

Comments on nerfed heroes:
Outworld Devourer: No more value point in Astral is big, and now he can only sustain his mana for Arcane Orb if he hits heroes.
Earth Spirit: Ouch.
Invoker: These nerfs look reasonable. I'll have to wait and see if they actually gut the hero, like how i though the 6.85 Lesh nerfs looked reasonable, but made Leshrac into one of the worst heroes.
Arc Warden: So, looks like Arc isn't really suited for Pos 1 I WIN GAMES ON MY OWN BECAUSE I AM A SOCIOPATH AlextheFool anymore, but since his laning got buffed, he can likely run mid.

So an Abaddon buff I called

Invoker is still good

The **** is with potm aghs

RIP Arc Warden

Moar good Void changes, is still a good carry

OD is probably balanced now

PA dagger is officially cancer

Shadow Demon + TB is now even more aids

Interesting SF aghs

Ouch, Spectre's agi nerf... probably not the biggest deal

So of all the things to buff about TB, base armour was it? Really?

Troll is totally a good hero guys

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So that's a lot of stuff to come to grips with. Spectre's a lot worse but still playable, as is OD and Invoker. The Axe buff seems idiotically good to me.

Terrorblade, despite negligible buffs, may be a lot better, since he's going to be a lot tankier, mitigating his one weakness. Even if drums will suck on him now, he got a huge indirect buff with the HP changes.

We shall see my friend.

We shall see.....

PS: you should be happy about bloodthorn am i rite?