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The MLG Patch

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Forum » General Discussion » The MLG Patch 67 posts - page 5 of 7
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » September 8, 2015 8:18am | Report
Well, I'll defer to your judgement here. Expect to see this updated with Lina, Clinkz, and a couple others tonight.

PS: Any thoughts on the Naga, Necro and Sniper changes?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » September 8, 2015 8:40am | Report
Terathiel wrote:

Well, I'll defer to your judgement here. Expect to see this updated with Lina, Clinkz, and a couple others tonight.

PS: Any thoughts on the Naga, Necro and Sniper changes?



Naga Siren : Seriously stop with the weed (^^). You made Naga absurdly broken. The *whole point* of Naga is that her manfight sucks, she farms ultra fast but doesn't scale really well with farm (same thing as AM or Alch), and she's about rushing Radiance and pushing lanes.
You buffed her laning. You buffed her manfight to OP level. You gave her the best BAT in the game bar none which is completey broken on an illusion hero since illusions get the BAT as well. And how did you nerf her rat? You didn't. Song cooldown from 60 to 80 changes nothing in comparsion, she gets Nectarine anyways.
If you want to buff Naga that hard, you need to make the Radiance build unplayable. Like Naga can no longer buy Radiance. Or Naga illusions no longer carry the radiance aura. That's the only way you stop the ResidentSleeper Naga dota and turn Naga into a fighter. This way you'll get the old drum/diffu/manta ganking Naga back (but then if that's what you want you can just replace Rip Tide with a fighting steroid that synergizes with ilusions).

Necrophos : I definitley agree with everything. Although it would make more sense to nerf Glimmer Cape itself than to make his ult do pure damage to go through it. Pure damage Necro ult is too strong for other reasons.

Sniper : The thing is, as long as the hero stays a 950 range right-clicking creep, his concept is going to suck. When a hero concept is that poorly designed, you need to use the wastebasket not deperately try to fix it. Take Aim needs to f*cking GO, he needs long range *nukes* not long range right clicks.


Also about Glimmer Cape, have you considered reworking the item instead of nerfing it? At the core it's a poorly designed item and a complete rework might be the best solution. For me, the fact that you can cast it on teammates is what needs to be completely removed, and then the item rebalanced from there. The point of glimmer should be to allow heroes with channeling skills to get solo kills without getting interrupted IMO. Not to cast it on teammates...ever. Except to initiate maybe.
So what about : Glimmer Cape cast range reduced from 900 to 200 (yes 200, you read me right). And then buff the duration and reduce the mana cost? At least it's a better design here, buy it on heroes with channeling skills and use it to initiate.
No because seriously I'm fed up with having to buy dust on all my cores and still having dust permanently on cooldown just to get kited by 16 second cooldown imba cape. Even with 25-something cooldown it's OP. Invis castable on teammates is OP as long as its cooldown is lower than dust cooldown. Since casting invis on teammates is that problematic, why allow it in the first place?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » September 8, 2015 8:59am | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:




Naga Siren : Seriously stop with the weed (^^). You made Naga absurdly broken. The *whole point* of Naga is that her manfight sucks, she farms ultra fast but doesn't scale really well with farm (same thing as AM or Alch), and she's about rushing Radiance and pushing lanes.
You buffed her laning. You buffed her manfight to OP level. You gave her the best BAT in the game bar none which is completey broken on an illusion hero since illusions get the BAT as well. And how did you nerf her rat? You didn't. Song cooldown from 60 to 80 changes nothing in comparsion, she gets Nectarine anyways.
If you want to buff Naga that hard, you need to make the Radiance build unplayable. Like Naga can no longer buy Radiance. Or Naga illusions no longer carry the radiance aura. That's the only way you stop the ResidentSleeper Naga dota and turn Naga into a fighter.

Necrophos : I definitley agree with everything. Although it would make more sense to nerf Glimmer Cape itself than to make his ult do pure damage to go through it. Pure damage Necro ult is too strong for other reasons.

Sniper : The thing is, as long as the hero stays a 950 range right-clicking creep, his concept is going to suck. When a hero concept is that poorly designed, you need to use the wastebasket not deperately try to fix it. Take Aim needs to f*cking GO, he needs long range *nukes* not long range right clicks.


Also about Glimmer Cape, have you considered reworking the item instead of nerfing it? At the core it's a poorly designed item and a complete rework might be the best solution. For me, the fact that you can cast it on teammates is what needs to be completely removed, and then the item rebalanced from there. The point of glimmer should be to allow heroes with channeling skills to get solo kills without getting interrupted IMO. Not to cast it on teammates...ever. Except to initiate maybe.
So what about : Glimmer Cape cast range reduced from 900 to 200 (yes 200, you read me right). And then buff the duration and reduce the mana cost? At least it's a better design here, buy it on heroes with channeling skills and use it to initiate.
No because seriously I'm fed up with having to buy dust on all my cores and still having dust permanently on cooldown just to get kited by 16 second cooldown imba cape. Even with 25-something cooldown it's OP. Invis castable on teammates is OP as long as its cooldown is lower than dust cooldown.


Yes, Naga was silly, I liked the 1.35 number. That's it! Still, I guess it's a better idea to keep her a rat... it'd differentiate her from Terrorblade a bit more, who is a far better fighter.

Necro ult doesn't deal pure damage, it ignores bonus magic resist from items and abilities. Not the innate magic resist heroes have.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » September 8, 2015 9:08am | Report
Terathiel wrote:

Necro ult doesn't deal pure damage, it ignores bonus magic resist from items and abilities. Not the innate magic resist heroes have.


But it comes down to the same thing in the end. It means that magic resistance no longer does anything against Necro ult. Meaning, you one-shot Huskar. You wreck Anti-Mage. I can no longer buy 4 Cloaks on my Lone Druid to survive Necro ult (it's legit as hell xD). Essentially Necro no longer has anything that deals with his ult. Except BKBs, but you can just wait them out and jump in afterwards.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 8, 2015 9:28am | Report
The one thing that absolutely makes no sense in this list are the bounty buffs. :P

He was one of the most popular and succesfull heroes at TI with a rediculous winrate, and i think he was undefeated at the main event.
Giving him bonus movespeed while invis will make him an absulutely OP monster who wil just wreck every earlygame. (Which he is doing often already .)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » September 8, 2015 9:31am | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:


Sniper : The thing is, as long as the hero stays a 950 range right-clicking creep, his concept is going to suck. When a hero concept is that poorly designed, you need to use the wastebasket not deperately try to fix it. Take Aim needs to f*cking GO, he needs long range *nukes* not long range right clicks.

Stop this circlejerk please. So what if he is a low skillcap annoying hero? Wraith King is a stun-hit-run type of hero. Drow Ranger doesnt differ very much from Sniper. Bloodseeker needs little to no work to play as well (at least mostly in this patch). Please stop this 'mandatory full rework' circlejerk just because a hero is exceptionally annoying.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 8, 2015 9:40am | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

The one thing that absolutely makes no sense in this list are the bounty buffs. :P

He was one of the most popular and succesfull heroes at TI with a rediculous winrate, and i think he was undefeated at the main event.
Giving him bonus movespeed while invis will make him an absulutely OP monster who wil just wreck every earlygame. (Which he is doing often already .)


Tim can't handle the puss in boots because he's a scrub that doesn't know how to plant vision in advance... eheh

Just kidding, specially because I agree with him. I don't think the purpose of the hero is to be able to offlane better, since the way he's played at the moment means constant disrupting of the enemy's team timing windows and the menace of a huge comeback in gold even if they're ahead. He's at a good spot, no need for a nerf since he is somewhat high skill level, but also no need for buffs.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » September 8, 2015 9:57am | Report
Unscathed wrote:

Stop this circlejerk please. So what if he is a low skillcap annoying hero? Wraith King is a stun-hit-run type of hero. Drow Ranger doesnt differ very much from Sniper. Bloodseeker needs little to no work to play as well (at least mostly in this patch). Please stop this 'mandatory full rework' circlejerk just because a hero is exceptionally annoying.


I think you don't get the issue here.

The problem isn't that he's low skill cap or that he's annoying. The game needs low skill cap heroes, and there are FAR more annoying heroes than Sniper (ever played against a carry Naga? *That* is real annoyance...not a right-clicking dwarf).
Problem with Sniper is that the hero design straight up sucks. Like, a 5-year old could make a better hero concept and would win a hero creation contest against Icefrog's Sniper easily. It's badly thought out, and makes up for terrible gameplay.

The modern day Sniper is as good of a hero concept as the 20 second BKB old Naix, or the old carry Chen, or the old Bloodseeker. When a hero concept is garbage, you don't try to fix it, you put it in the dumpster where it belongs and you make up a new one.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KEEP CALM AND FEED » September 8, 2015 9:58am | Report
I have an idea that i am stealing from Kyphoid. He mentioned a small hint on turn rates.

Currently, glimmer can be cast without turning, jusy like kunkkas torrent.

So we nerf the cast range to 500 and add that glimmer needs to be casted once you have faced the target completely.

Currently as it stands, it like the old oracle ulti in terms of magic damage.
Fade delay is counted in the duration and the duration reduced to 5 seconds.

There.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 8, 2015 9:59am | Report
ChiChi wrote:



Tim can't handle the puss in boots because he's a scrub that doesn't know how to plant vision in advance... eheh

Just kidding, specially because I agree with him. I don't think the purpose of the hero is to be able to offlane better, since the way he's played at the moment means constant disrupting of the enemy's team timing windows and the menace of a huge comeback in gold even if they're ahead. He's at a good spot, no need for a nerf since he is somewhat high skill level, but also no need for buffs.

Well since the game is primarily balanced around the pro scene and he is destroying thse games we must be nerfed in some way. But since meta changes can also nerf him i expect the hight of the nerf to depend on overall patch changes like gold gain and stuff. But i do expect some track nerf.

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