Tri vs Tri - Tri-hard discussion 8{D

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So, we recently had a discussion where we should have played an Aggressive Tri-Lane as Dire against Radiant. The question is, "what does an Aggressive Tri-Lane truly need?"

For me, you need a good combination of Harrass, Control and Damage:-



Harrass to keep your opponents away from the Creep Wave, or to chase them away while you farm the Pull Camp.



Control to lock your opponents down, while ensuring that your Tri-Lane does not get locked down. It's all good having a ton of Killing potential if you can never realise it.



Damage, because what's the point of going "Aggressive" if you can't Kill anyone? 8{3

So, what do you think some good Aggressive Tri-Lane combinations are? and what kind of Defensive Tro-Lanes can defend against them, while still having the upper hand if both sides go Defensive/Roaming?

Undying -- Axe -- Omniknight

* if you see a dual melee trilane. this aggro trilane is ....painful.

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Clockwerk -- Crystal Maiden -- Drow Ranger

* one of my unconventional aggro trilanes. theory is

Frostbite into Power Cogs then just right click from Drow

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Jakiro -- Mirana -- Shadow Demon

* surprisingly this aggro trilane requires level two on all three heroes before they can really kill but once they do... dont go near the wave or its a kill.

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Leshrac -- Shadow Demon -- Juggernaut

* level on kill potential is high but gets higher with levels.

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Ancient Apparition -- Soul Keeper -- Lion

* self explanatory.

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i have so many more and a lot of them are unconventional so i dont know if they would work.

You forgot to mention, that once you hit lvl2, Diabolic Edict + Shadow Poison + Healing Ward give you great Pushing potential <}3 ...lacks Harrass though ._.

If it requires lvl2 in order to get Kills, it fails as an Aggro Tir-Lane, either be ready from lvl1, or pray that you're up against a much weaker Tri-Lane.

Having said that, Disruption into Sacred Arrow with Dual Breath on as many Heroes as posible may be quite effective.

Only if you're foolish enough to stand next to Axe, otherwise, it's only benefit is the Harrass from Undying, either Axe takes Berserker's Call at lvl1, or your only control, is being able to Repel someone to prevent them from being locked down.

Drow's Right-Click is laughable until lvl6, so you end up with 0 Damage or Harrass. Again, you need to be ready to Kill at lvl1. Replacing Drow Ranger with Ancient Apparition would work much better if you want Right-Click Damage, but with only 500 Cast Range on Frostbite on a 280 Movement Speed Hero, you're Initiation is incredibly easy to Kite.

You're gonna have to explain why you put a Soul Keeper in an Aggro Tri-Lane where it's hard to get levels and will inevitably stunt his ratting. 8{(

Honestly, I only see the 1st 2 I quoted working 8{(

Crazy unlikely to work, but it did.

Tusk, Sven, and Kunkka. They all hide in the trees, and once an enemy comes into the lane and is out from their tower it's a very good chance for a kill. Tusk snowballs with Sven and Kunkka, once they're out of the snowball, Sven uses his Storm Hammer and Kunkka starts his Torrent. The enemy is stunned, then torrented, and they're all autoattacking. Their item build is kind of wacko too, as one gets 12 tangos and 2 healing salves, one gets four mana pots, and one gets a quelling blade. Tango and mana pots for regen, and the quelling blade for cutting a path to gank in the trees. Sven and Tusk get Arcane Boots to cover the lack of mana.

I'll dredge up the evidence that it works if anyone wants me to.

aggro trilanes are all about kills. harass is great in a defensive one, aggro your more wanting kill potential then anything else.



it does get kills from level one. disruption into arrow into dual breath? ... if you dont get a kill off that you shouldnt be playing... what i meant was the kill Potential picks up amazingly after they all get level 2.
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"if they have a dual melee tri" ... now if axe just stays near the creeps they cant go on him. your effectively forcing them out of the lane. the kill potential lays in the fact that they will be a dual meleee tri. any other tri... dont go it.




people under estimate power cogs. you are basically cutting off an enemy from most things. plus the cogs cover most of the lane so any initiation will be destroyed by the push back mana drain. and drow does some damage with precision aura so its not "laughable".0 damage? your maths is incorrect! PORY I CALL THEEE!!! jks its not 0 damage its actually quite considerable. more then enough for a kill. come on man ... 5 seconds of right clicks... thats a kill.

weaknesses are blink and well ... earth spirit (damn you es)




yeaaa its pretty **** ... this is more a .. defensive trilane. lol my bad.

One I've been considering running for a while now, Lion Luna Skywrath Mage. Harasses ridiculously hard, insane nukes, disables, kill potential. What's not to love?

Squishy as hell? Don't get me wrong, it's certainly not bad, but you are vulnerable to pick offs too. E.g. if they target Lion then you have no other stuns or lockdown to stop them from killing him.

One thing I think you fail to mention in the OP Xyrus is AOE effects - being able to hit multiple heroes with stuns, harass or anything else is very useful when you're in a tri vs tri situation. I think you also need to consider tankiness/move speed and counter-initiation in these lanes - losing a hero early on is a big momentum shifter and tends to lead to more losses later on.

Low level dependency is also important - you want your combo to be able to kill from level 1, and not to require too many additional levels or spells in order to be/stay effective. One of the key things with an aggressive trilane is that your carry is capable of contributing heavily at low levels - so the likes of Sven, Juggernaut, Chaos Knight, Wraith King etc

Undying + Skywrath Mage + Gyrocopter
Clockwerk + Bane + Keeper of the Light
Leshrac + Shadow Demon + Gyrocopter
Wraith King + Jakiro + Rubick
Tidehunter + Crystal Maiden + Kunkka

Xyrus, I did this on my last inhouse, so you have to respect this.

Viper, Treant Protector, and Shadow Shaman

I got harasses, lockdown, and damage.


Leech Seed is actually surprisingly good at ganks because it heals your nearby allies. Seriously, if there is no Leech Seed Shadow Shaman is dead meat in most of the kills.

But actually, your Defensive-Tri lacks stuns to stop Shackles. Basically free food.

It's not smart to try getting Kills on Tri-Lanes with Full HP, it's best to be able to whittle them down a bit, then go on them. The difference between going on a Hero with 400 HP and a Hero with 500 HP is surprisingly big at lvl1, bear in mind most Auto-Attacks only do 50ish Damage and most Nukes only 90ish Damage at this point.

The sheer Damage you get from Bladefury + Diabolic Edict does mitigate having no Harrass to a point, but you've still got to drop 500HP before they can safely run back to their Tower. If you take Split Earth at lvl1 for more control and less Damage, this can work, but yo're only buying yourself 2 seconds before they can run away. With 3 second of Bladefury left, the Tower better not be close by.

The problem is, you're using Disruption and Sacred Arrow on one target, your only control over the rest of the team is an AoE Slow, it's not impossible for a Defensive Tri-Lane to fight back with a well-timed Aphotic Shield, Shallow Grave, Fissure...or they could just use those 2.5 seconds to get the other 2 in positon. Disruption + Sacred Arrow + Dual Breath may get you a Kill on 1 Hero, but once they're all used, the other 2 Heroes are free to capitalize on the 25/17/10 second Cooldowns. It's a good Tri-Lane, but you've still got to consider these things. 8{3

Unless those 2 Melees are Wraith King and Juggernaut. It's not just Axe who can punish melee Heroes like Axe for standing too close to the Creep Wave 8{3

Some people overestimate 2 hits to destroy Cogs 8{3

Also, if you want the math, a lvl1 Drow Ranger with a Wraith Band does 54-64 + 5.58 Damage every 1.3ish seconds, even assuming you get 5 seconds of Right-Clicks, that's only 280 Damage over 5 seconds, not much more than most Ranged Heroes. 5 seconds is also more than enough for the other Tri-Lane to fight back and get a Kill or 2
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Me like <}3

Not much damage 8{(
No Harrass and your damage is heavily countered by the Creep Wave 8{(

As expected from the man I Aggro Tri-Lane with the most. 8{3