Thoughts about Alchemist

My assertion here is that a proper Alchemist can finish a game at minute 35.

I understand lategame kicks in but he can finish it.

Also, why dont people realize that crimson guard was MADE for this guy? Do i have to give examples along with patchnotes next update?

When will you realize CG is an undiscovered item? I beleive it is not being used as mich as it should.


@crazy tim: why do you think his stun damage was nerfed? Exactly the reason he chopped off 2/3 hp of heroes durimg early game
Mirana needs pure skill
Ck needs pure luck altho being point target and short range.
Apparition requires the target to stay put

You see, every non ulti stun that has some insane duration requires some amount of non controllable factor to be favorable. At Alchemist end, he gets good range a good stun of 3-4 second provided he lands it. People just dont want to use a setup stun to land this stun. Their call. They dont use for safety buffer and settle for a second stun.
Their call

But how is it Alchemist's fault.

They dont realize it has an AoE. If you use shadow blade and are unable to throw stun, you can just go near them and stun them in AoE, but it has a double edge. And a well deserved one.



When all is said and done, Alchemist is not a lategame carry. He focuses on getting lategame items in mid game. Thats his advantage.
Execute him properly even this day and he can fight a troll warlord 20 minutes into the game with a CG BKB BASHER and maelstrom while troll would have an HoTD and SnY.

Tell me he cant win....
Tell me he absolutely wont win. That he doesnt have a decent probability of winning.....

so what is the build progression?

cause i love alchemist but i can never get slotted early game in a dual lane.

if im tri-safelane farming with midas i get 4 core by 30-40 minutes usually AC Mjollnir BKB abyssal.

but i usualy only get dual lane and by 30 minutes ill have ac bkb maelstrom

what is the pregression you recommend ?

so like

starting items?

items by 10 minutes?

items by 20 minutes?

items by 30 minutes?

cheers

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1354648926

This is what the Alch dream is - complete and utter freefarm with a few kills in lane to seal the deal. He got a 7-minute Maelstrom, after boots.

Problem is, this is a one-in-a-million game. If ANY attention had been put on stopping the Alchemist farming, we'd have lost. If instead of an Alch it was, say, a Terrorblade, the result would've been the same (but probably better).

I read this topic yesterday and I wish to share with you my experience. Alchemist was my no#1 hard carry in past and I'll agree with anyone who said that he is much weaker now.
I couldn't accept the fact that I have to stop playing Alchemist. So I tried a few new ideas and I think that I found the solution that works well. Alchemist can be situational MID pick.

Why situational? Because sometimes you already have tank/melee heroes or semi-carry/carry heroes in team so you should pick more utility mid such as Puck or Storm Spirit, but sometimes opponent have already picked Sniper, Razor or Lina (there are few more counters) and they will make your lane phase hard as hell.

Why Mid? Because his Acid Spray will secure him chance to farm, also it will push lane a little bit so he can control rune and get new charges for hp/mana sustain. Impact of Greevil's Greed will put you ahead your enemy because it will provide you more items compared to opponents. This 2 spells in combination can do miracle if you have a good teammate that stacks Neutrals or Ancients for you. Unstable Concoction is still useful as it gives AOE stun and decent damage. Chemical Rage will make you unstoppable to farm and once you get it you are no more possible to be killed by opponent solo mid.

My suggested core is Power Treads, Drum of Endurance and Shadow Blade. Power Treads and Bracer early on will make you fat enough to survive few nukes and the fact you are mid so you will be higher level than others will eliminate possibility of getting nuked down when enemy supports comes for a gank. Shadow Blade will make you really dangerous and deadly when you go for a gank and it will give you escape so you could farm more careless than usual.

My conclusion is that Alchemist as mid pick is really strong in many fields: anti-pushing, tanking, ganking and semi-carrying. He got strong lane presence against many common mid heroes. He can snowball hard.

Also I tried one thing that I read over here. I was playing hard carry Alchemist yesterday. I started with Crimson Guard and Mjollnir. I'm more than pleased with result but I'll have to experiment more. Here you go link: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1369467208.
P.S. I played on my old account - Hirshman

Here's my feedback http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1371510221. Alchemist as hard carry confirmed again.
Vanguard / Mjollnir / Crimson Guard / Skull Basher / Assault Cuirass / Abyssal Blade / Boots of Travel / Black King Bar.
You should be 2 luxury items ahead of enemy carry at 35-40 minute mark. That's the time when you MUST end that match. Avoid picking Alchemist against Phantom Assassin.

In this match that I'm showing here, I was against Chaos Knight and Vengeful Spirit during lane phase. I had Lion as support. So no free farm for me. Still I got double gold per minute compared to Chaos Knight.

What do you gusy think about armlet+Pipe alch? He can farm it reall fast and with the armlet and pipe he would be very difficult to bring down with burst damage, as well as have the ability to do some pretty good dps.

Wow, I see a lot of things that sound pretty horrible honestly.

- Pure ganking builds. Example : Drum of Endurance, Blink Dagger, Shadow Blade, Armlet of Mordiggian...
A pure ganking Alch is really bad because it doesn't take advantage of Greevil's Greed in any way. Alch's only ganking skill is his stun, and it's no longer a good skill since the nerf. Shadowblade Alch is outdated since the stun nerf, duration is just way to short. Blink/drum/whatever Alch is legit but all in all it just comes down to "is playing a ganking Alch without taking advantage of greed viable?".
The answer is a definite no. Pure ganking Alch is completely outclassed by other assassin carries. Pick Phantom Assassin, Templar Assassin, Tiny, Clinkz...they're just way way better at picking off single targets than your Alch, and also have better scaling.
And support Alch is just an underpowered Venge or Naga.

- Pure tank/utility builds. Example : Crimson Guard, Mekansm, Pipe of Insight, Heaven's Halberd...
That's also terrible because Alch is not a utility hero. His only utility skill is his stun and remember it got nerfed. If you don't build right-click on Alch you deal no damage. And if you build no farming item on Alch then Greevil's Greed is useless and you will have no farm.
If you want to build that kind of stuff pick a real utility hero like Dark Seer, Necrophos or something.

- Hand of Midas
No, just no. No synergy with Greevil's Greed whatsoever, Maelstrom is a billion times better in every possible way. You need a farming item that helps quickly clear large amounts of creeps for greed to be of any use. Mjollnir or Battle Fury are the only farming items that make sense on Alch. Radiance has been completely outdated as well since the time when Chemical Rage stopped giving bonus HP.
Besides Midas is an item for late game heroes who want to go for the 35+ minute mark. Alch is a mid game hero.

The only viable build IMO is to rush a farming item and THEN situationally go for ganking stuff. Like Maelstrom into Blink Dagger.
You need to max Greevil's Greed AT MOST second. It's the hero's only decent skill, and it even got buffed. Without that skill Alch is nothing.
Either go for Spray + greed for passive farming (if you're going mid), or for stun + greed if you want early kills (if safe laning with aggressive supports)

But the thing is, Alch doesn't necessary need an item to gank, since he can still follow-up with his stun on initiations from his team.

TLDR : If you don't rush a Maelstrom or a Battle Fury on him and use it to flashfarm with Greevil's Greed, for me the hero is completely outclassed by other heroes. And he is probably outclassed even if you do :)

Just gonna mention that getting Crimson Guard on Alch doesn't instantly make him pure utility. It just makes you harder to kill early on so you can fight a bit or survive ganks.

I know it doesn't, but still, you're buying a tank item as a first item, on a hero who is supposed to snowball with farm and pickoffs. I just don't see the point.

Besides the only real benefit on Vanguard is that it allows you to tank creeps and farm jungle. Alch doesn't need that since he can heal with ult.

You can be more aggressive with the damage block by diving towers. Also, you don't get bursted instantly anymore and the enemy can no longer deal more damage with right-clicks faster than you can regen if you get it first. Acid Spray and Greevil's Greed already lets Alch flash-farm in the lane and jungle, so you could probably go a bit tanky first to work on your survivability so you don't die while farming. After that, you can start getting more farming items while feeling safer while farming. And with the minus armour + maybe medallion, Alch's low damage isn't really an issue early on.