Oracle as a #2-3

Dude are you seriously gonna argue invisibility over constant stun/debuff removal?
I would give you a free pass if you are seriously drunk and/or have mixed up your psych medications.

Otherwise ANY dota player worth his salt will rank invisibility as a non-factor in most any engagements.
The only drawback when facing invisibility is the economic load it puts on supports. Hell I always encourage position 2,3 to chip in for dusts if the supports are having trouble due to warding funds.

Any medium skilled player will always have a dust/sentry/gem on him/her when facing invisibility.
Come lategame, when both teams keep a gem anyways, what use will that invis be?

You know what kills most in dota? STUNS!!! BIG BIG STUNS!!
Imagine a glass cannon hero with this ultimate on, you could potentially teamwipe and still live to tell the tale.

Only low skilled players ever face a problem with invisibility, the scrub pubs.

The only reason no one plays oracle is same as the reason most no one plays chen or wisp in lower skill brackets, because they can't.
Oracle is meant to counter certain lineups, you can't expect to win against a pure dmg nuker playing oracle. EVERY hero is meant to shine in CERTAIN conditions. Doesn't mean THEY are bad, just means YOU are not good enough with the understanding of the hero.

Sorry if I was harsh, just this constant nerf/buff useless hero crying routine is pretty good for inducing migraines.






BACK TO THE TOPIC :
A core oracle is pretty good, not excellent, but very good indeed.
He has great laning and good nuking potential at lvl 7, the low BAT doesn't hurt much either.

Mek/Euls is the standard build on the hero, so yes.



Well, #3 utility fits the hero's role really well. In the offlane he can get levels fairly fast, transition into a ganker with his nuke combo, and get a Guardian Greaves and Eul's Scepter of Divinity pretty fast.

The only issue is, the hero's not such a good offlaner.

Yes, he can trade hits with supports with Fate's Edict, which is good. Yes, he can heal himself to shrug off harass (kind of) which is good. Yes, he can kind of CS from a distance with Fortune's End...
But he's squishy as hell and has no escape...and he doesn't even have a disable to use defensively if he gets focused.
See, at least an offlane Lina can use Light Strike Array defensively if she gets jumped on...even an offlane Death Prophet can Silence defensively to avoid chainstuns...
Oracle has literally no defensive skill if he gets focused.
So you risk feeding...a lot.

But then...you can offlane with any hero against dual lanes...you can offlane with any hero against uncoordinated trilanes...so you can offlane with anything in pubs. So sure!



Before, it was a Shallow Grave plus a Shadow Blade.
Now, it's a Shallow Grave plus a Black King Bar.
I mean, one is better than the other :)

Who cares that magical damage goes through? Pop Satanic, get 175% lifesteal that even gets doubled by Oracle ult, and lifesteal everything back. There's literally no way a carry with lifesteal can die after False Promise ends.
Satanic is an item that is known for having a major problem : it's almost useless without a Black King Bar, because if you pop it without BKB you just get stunned during the short duration and you don't lifesteal anything...besides you likely die during this duration.
Well, False Promise solves this problem entirely.
Since you 100% reliably lifesteal 100000 HP when you pop Satanic, you don't care about the damage you take during FP.

Now, literally any carry can manfight Troll Warlord without getting bashed, become immune to Reverse Polarity, or become immortal by buying a Satanic.

The thought of Gyrocopter or Slark with this thing is absolutely terrifying. Or Troll Warlord with a free BKB.

How is that bad again? Honestly I think it's a huge buff to the hero and it's almost OP if something.

Well, it forces you to play the hero as a hard support. Newsflash : he is a hard support, since he's completely item-independent and the only thing he needs is a fast level 7. So there :)

(note : Glimmer Cape being imba is a very different thing. The glimmer issue is that for only 2K gold, you can give a free Shadow Blade and a free upgraded Hood of Defiance to your whole team. The imba part is not that the effect is that strong, it's that the item has no price, no cooldown, and one billion cast range. And it's still not as OP as an item that lets you cast a free Black King Bar on a teammate...not even close.)

I thinK some people here are confused and they misunderstand what Oracles ultimate WAS, as opposed to what it is NOW.
Like hamster said, before, Oracles ultimate kept you from dying, while keeping you invisible from the enemy team. Unless they have detection, which any good person should have. Heck, I play carry and I routinely buy dust for my team, just so you can shut down an invis hero.

NOW however, instead of turning you invisible, oracles ult keeps you alive for the duration, while constantly purging you of debuffs, SUCH AS STUNS. imagine this. Before, if a carry got Primal Roared, oracle could ultimate him and hope to heal the carry enough that he survives being stunned.

Now however, oracle just ults whoever got Primal Roared and kabam, they keep fighting, while being immune to stuns and only taking 50 percent damage.
That's a pretty good ult if you ask me, especially when a stun can generally mean life or death. It may not be the best all around ultimate, but It's a way better ult than, say, calldown.

Wrong. It used to remove disables just like Aphotic Shield on cast. That's why most Oracles used to buy a Blink Dagger, so they counter initiate with False Promise.

And you don't take 50% less damage at all.

For me thats the problem on his ult. There is no dmg reductiom right now. A squishy carry that is in a position where he can get stunlocked at all is already as good as dead, not because of the stuns, but because of the dmg. That's why BKB is far superior to Oracle's ult, because it not only prevents most stuns, but it prevents all magic dmg. Another thing is that it's a constant purge of debuffs which isn't the same as immunity. Long cast animations will still get cancled and channeling skills still interrupted.

Btw saying it was Shallow Grave + Shadow Blade is extremely inaccurate. 6.83 Oracle ult allowed for invisible blink initiation without the enemy team ever knowing which was a huge deal on any team with Magnus, Tide, etc. You got hit by the ult without ever seeing the hero. Now you can ensure the initiation hits, but if they can see the hero blinking in they can still click their blinks/bkbs/forcestaffs to dodge the stun, because they can use their stuns to at least cancel the cast animation which buys time. The same problem would occur with Shadowblade, because the hero gets revealed the moment his cast animation starts.
Against medium-high tier players this was the only option to completely ensure an initiation hits.

Also forcing truesight from the enemy in itself had more value than the current ult will ever give. You seem to severely underestimate what a cost truesight has. Even in progames you don't always see truesight around, because the cost is simply too high.
I played 6.83 Oracle in a pubstack with ~3.6k mmr average btw so I was playing at a medium level skill bracket and guess what? Most opponents didn't have a lot of truesight. ****'s too expensive.

The argument that it's strong when Satanic is out works, but it would require a Satanic to be there, which is not an item you usually build untill late-lategame. So before that you only prolong inevitable deaths which has minimal impact. Shallow grave at least gives the chance for someone to live, but Oracles ult will only save someone if they take small enough amounts of dmg.

I played a lot of Oracle in 6.83 and a little in 6.84 and his ult is just strictly worse from what I can tell. I only pick him for his disarm now and occasionally against high magic burst.

Well, actually, not necessarily, you can build Satanic as a 2nd item on a lot of carries, and have it by the 25-30 min mark. And you should if you have a decent Oracle in your team.
The buildup is pretty good, and it even got buffed significantly since Reaver only costs 3K gold.
If you're playing in a stack you can even delay Black King Bar after Satanic, since Oracle makes you immune to stuns anyways.

I'm not saying that the invis from False Promise was useless. I'm just saying that immunity to stuns that even makes you immune to BKB-piercing stuns like Reverse Polarity or Skull Basher is WAY WAY better than invisibility.

But let's just play Oracle + Gyrocopter or Slark in the next dotafire stack and own some noobs <3

I think false promise is op. The older one was atleast counterable by true sight. But this is akin to invulnerablity with a stanic and some good right click dps.

That's what my scrub thinking says anyway.

Ummm, well there may be no damage reduction, but 8s of free hitting on carries can pretty much kills all enemies. I mean they might die, but the enemies will die too

I don't think any of you understand how the ult works. You don't take damage during ultimate at all, but the healing is doubled. Damage is delayed, on both versions. And true sight is not that expensive. 180 gold for a dust? That's 2 teamfights/ganks/engagements/whatever. I'll take it, especially that he can't get rid of the invis so he'll be slowed by the dust.


Oracle before suffered a lot from the Riki syndrome. If the enemy is smart enough to buy a Gem of True Sight and just 5 man, his ult becomes useless as an initiating tool. It becomes an Aphotic Shield + Shallow Grave + invisibility, which don't get me wrong, was good. But a continuous purge? I mean come on, the only thing that holds you there at that point is Black Hole.


Point is : He's a very niche pick, sort of like Pugna. Godlike in certain situations, trashcan in others.


P.S : This is the last source of HP removal in the game, but somehow Borrowed Time turns all the damage taken into heals and Shallow Grave can save the target if he was to die. Go figure.