DotA 2 Smalltalk

´´Damage Block now works on illusions heroes´´
I Saw this in the 6.87 update, does it make more viable to build Vanguard / Abyssal Blade on ilusions heroes like Phantom Lancer?
Actually, PL has Phantom Rush According to dotapedia it is not stopped by bkb
And then he need HP sustain on mid game, mana sustain is more suitable in the lanning phase to spam lances, Also skadi just solves every mana he needs
Does it make 3 hamster ?

Abyssal Cast Range is the same range as your autoattack, no?

So Ranged heroes could pick it up?

Also, how does it work with Hurricane Pike?

Abyssal Blade Cast Range @ 140, I guess melee type gets the most benfits out of the item from it.

I find Hurricane Pike quite a situational items & viably works on some heroes; in theory.

Like for example, subpar version of Song of the Siren, Skewer, Reverse Polarity.

By using Blink Dagger, Winter's Curse then Hurricane Pike.

Ok, fair point.
Damage block on illusions hardly changes anything for PL IMO. It's more of a Naga buff so that she can jungle with illusions faster in the early game. For PL, he jungles extremely fast anyways.
Yes, Phantom Rush goes through BKB. I did forget that one. So yeah, PL can rush BKB heroes and stun them.
PL's damage is almost exclusively diffusal though, and diffusal doesn't go through BKB. SO he can disable but can't deal damage on top of it.
And Vanguard PL is all right. I always found it pretty underrated actually, the hero is a really good fighter in the first 20 minutes of the game.
And the regen from abyssal partially removes the need for heart (which I always find to be a dead slot)
So yeah I guess the good old vanguard/diffusal PL into skadi + abyssal is back. Well if he didn't get a huge nerf in 6.87 with the diffusal change that is (OSFrog why?).

So yeah that's 3 for me, 3.5 with Centaur, maybe even 4 with Bristle.
I guess...you win? :)
(kind of)

Still think this item rework is a massive OSFrog fail though. Turning a carry item into an item for "melee tanks", when there's hardly any such thing in the game in the first place, and the only ones who qualify are too kiteable for the active to even work and have no attack speed to bash anything in the first place.
Actually it's still a carry item. Just a much weaker one, because it's only viable on the Vanguard carries.
So yeah, Vanguard carries and melee tanks with mobility and decent attack speed (whatever that is).
Reminds me of Kyfoid's Durable Escape Disablers :)

I'm not going to disagree the item is a lot, lot worse now, but it's far from useless. Aside from the obviously mentioned AM, Spec and PL (the latter of who will just get Vanguard instead of drums now), it's possibly better on the Spirit Bear of Lone Druid. Not the Druid, the bear. But you got it for the passive bash on him anyway. I'll stand by whoever said Bristleback too. Which makes 5 (4.5).

The thing is, those were just under half of the heroes that regularly built Abyssal, with the others being Lycan, Phantom Assassin, Alchemist, Ursa, Wraith King, , maybe Tiny and the occasional Sven. Night Stalker rarely upgraded to Abyssal because you've won or lost by that point, and the same argument can be made for Legion Commander.

It's better on Void because Void already went Vanguard. Kappa

How is it better? How is Vanguard on the bear better than Sacred Relic?

The old abyssal was absolutely core on the bear. It was just so good.

The bear really needs all the damage he can get. That's how he kills buildings. Well, and heroes too.

Also, that's how he rats in the late game with Aghs.

More damage on the bear = more Demolish = RIP buildings.

While vanguard on the bear...what does it even do? Useless HP regen, and damage block that you only buy after it has fallen off super hard already, since there's no way you're buying abyssal before you have Midas/radiance/maelstrom/AC/Vlads/whatever.

Actually, LD is one of the main reasons why I'm so disgruntled about the new abyssal. For me LD lost one of his best items.

Personally I'm replacing basher with Desolator in LD's build.

ALso Tera you forgot a ton of heroes in the old list of abyssal buyers. Lifestealer? Riki? Bloodseeker? Juggernaut (it was really his best item)? Slark? Broodmother? Even Windranger and Gyrocopter?

All those...RIP. No, it's like you turn a list of 20-25 heroes into...4. Essentially the Vanguard buyers.
It doesn't make vanguard a better item. It just limits abyssal to the heroes who could go vanguard already.

Wait so aren't you glad that people will buy Sheep now?

I am starting to believe that hamster is true icefrog and he just say things so we have a idea how to play each patch immo :0)
I think Vanguard changes can somehow counter Cleave damage against PL in the mid game, coupled with BKB so even magic AOE nukes can´t end you(or your illusions because you can spam new ones if they die of AOE magic), and then diffusal is the best damage item he can have, too bad diffusal was nerfed, Black King Bar Vanguard Difussal Blade would be his build this patch, mid game focused, after that the likes of Skadi Butterfly and Abyssal is what you want to build, hey PL has a build finally.


Dont know how Naga Siren this Patch, Vanguard seems cool to farm creeps in jungle/lane, but i would not build it on rat naga or support naga, maybe fighting naga in a fighting naga build ? dont know if this is viable right now, prefer to pick other illusion hero.

Also RIP Basher, rest with Mask of Madness and Glimmer Cape in the trash concept grave

In my past I was a prominent member in the development of Dota IMBA.

But then suddenly I had a realization. I wasn't developing dota Imba, I was developing dota itself. The real deal. That's what I have been doing all along.

All what I used to think was a parody, was actually real. Real changes to a real game played by millions.

I couldn't stand the pressure. The pressure of the responsibility I had to bear. The impact that my decisions had on the world.

So I snapped. I think it was about that time that my two selves split.

My first self bears the heavy burden of balancing this game you all love.

My second self keeps finding the flaws in the works of the former after it's too late, and seeing all the imperfections therein. That's why he's so critical of what he calls OSFrog, it's like looking in a broken mirror.

I'm sorry if anything this side of me has upset you. Maybe all that time the one I've been mad at is myself.

All hail the almighty Frog. It's just a symbol, but that's how you keep it real.




Damage block doesn't work on cleave, sadly.




Fighting Naga doesn't fit the hero's design. Mirror image's strength is the illusions' duration and tankiness, not their damage output. You're better off picking CK if you want to fight. Or PL, or even TB. Naga illusions deal very low damage so the hero can't properly snowball.

Carry Naga : Poor Man's Shield, Iron Talon, and Arcane Boots. Nothing else, no bottle, no aquila, just that. Rush radiance by farming lane and jungle at the same time. Then octarine, travels and manta, in that order. Don't go travels after radiance because the enemy team will just try to get your rax at that point and travels does nothing to prevent that. Then skadi because best item in the game. Her 6th slot item IMO is Bloodthorn now. Crits for illusions, infinite mana regen for infinite illusion spam, and active has great synergy with her W : if opponents purge bloodthorn, they get netted, and vice versa.
I think I've got the Naga now :)




MoM is a good concept. The item just needs a big buff.
Glimmer though, I think the design was a fail. The item is good and worth buying, but badly thought out. Was probably sponsored by the dust industry to increase their sales.
That and Faerie Fire. I think Tinkerbell is getting rich.

Why not Manta before Octarine on Naga? It's a better build up, and it still makes you farm faster. Plus you still won't have level 3 Song, or Bots, so the cooldown reduction isn't that valuable at that stage.

Even if the enemy is threatening your highground when you get two items up (Which isn't always the case), isn't the 5 semi squishy illusions better than the 3 tankier ones?