Thoughts on 6.85 Alchemist support?

Yep, Alch can beat SF mid if his 2 supports are constantly camping mid to babysit him, and SF gets no help at all. Yes, SF can't solo against trilanes, if that's the question.
And *even then*, they still can't kill SF, because Alch has no stun.

Also you will see a lot of emphasis by the SF's supports on rune control if there's an Alch, because part of shutting the hero down is stopping him from getting uncontested bounty runes.

EDIT;

Also the point isn't that Alch can't win against SF, because any hero can technically win lane against any other hero if you do certain things/have certain advantages. The point is that it's an SF favoured match-up.

Most mid alchemists go 3-1-1. And that is a good way to maximise stun damage while keeping the risk minimum for alchemist if stun back fires.

Alchemist has stun level 3 or 4 depending on the lane. And its not about support rotation, its about securing bounty rune for alchemist and taking the rune for themselves in case enemy arrives first. The point is, you beat sf by wrecking his mana. Alchemist makes sf rely on raze to last hit as you cant stand constantly in spray to last hit. once your bottle dries up, the team management does the rest. All alchemist games have that impact on supports that they secure bounty runes for alch. Even in 10v10 dota games they always give it to alch regardlessof whatever skirmishes are going at minute 0.

SF has worries even before he goes bottle. The worry is having gold to buy it. If you go razes and 3 creeps-4 creeps per wave, you atle***t need 2:30 for a bottle. Alch capitalizes on taking one bounty rune converting it into a bottle, using it to spam spray cornering you into using your mana and then you are starved for mana. You rely on bottle crow in that case and it impacts your economy.

Even if you say that SF wins mid, his economy would be lower. Heck if SF clears a whole wave and goes to rune, alchemist can simply leave lane and go there himself. There comes the unpredictability. Whether you gank on same rune or go to the other. Whether alch is lucky enough to take the bounty in that case, he doesnt need silly creeps he gets7 creeps worth of gold easily for bounty rune. Mid alchemist works this way, you dont need to fight simply because you really dont need to as you can farm and take bounties and as you feel like losing the lane you just start playing negatively, disrupting bottle replenishes and abusing your own to throw sprays on enemy highground.


Please, i havent made all of this by myself. I saw tons of high ranked matches and analyzed them to present you with these points. They are not some cooked up dreams. I have seen SFs struggle with alch mid and maybe they are **** players but hey they are 6k MMR so they are indeed better than me. I am not making any assumptions.

The thread title is "6.85 Alchemist Support". Let's not go any further offtopic please. If you want to discuss Core Alchemist, or Alchemist vs. Shadow Fiend, please make a new thread for it.

Have you googled "SF gets rekt by Alchemist mid" or just filtered Alch matches where he gets 2 supports wipe his *** and goes 10/0/10 w/ 1000 GPM? Because in a standard high skilled game SF wrecks Alch mid 1 vs 1. The other point is that having an Alch as your mid, SF as enemy mid and popularity of doublemids in competitive often enables a special chemical reaction in your allies' mind - they go crazy over ganking SF more than any mid in the game so yes you can get a 2/3 vs 1 lane as SF and lose it ofc.

It's unbelievable how much do you skew facts and hero power to try to theoretically prove a matchup is favored in Alch's way when it has been proven otherwise 10^345363 times on practice.

I'm gonna have to lock the thread at this rate...

Ok, ok, no more offtopics from me, officer.

Heh.
As if i skew facts.

If i have to come on topic, what kid of build does a support alch go?
The only thing he jas is a stun and an unreliable one at that. Suffice it to say that getting a medallion on alch doesnt mean you went support. An aghs gifting alch still needs farm.

I will see myself out of this thread as i dont have anything to contribute. Clearly i mix facts with fantasy.

Blink Dagger + Solar Crest.

A support Alch can still farm relatively fast with this build because of the buffed Acid Spray, besides armor reduction and dagger speeds up farming as well. And the mana regen from medallion/crest has perfect synergy with Alch's ulti.

So after you have this you're both decently good at ganking and farming and you can start giving away aghs.

Keep calm and mix facts with fantasy. Kappa.