The new Bloodseeker : nuker or semi-support?

Hey guys,

I'vs been thinking and experimenting a lot about the 6.82 Bloodseeker and my thought is that now he's basically another Nyx Assassin : an agility hero who is *not* supposed to be built as a carry.

The new BS has absolutely no ability whatsoever that makes you want to play him as a right-clicker. The old Bloodseeker was already a rather poor carry because of his complete absence of teamfight presence and lack of proper initiation besides just walking in and getting killed, but at least the old Bloodrage used to give him a lot of right-click DPS, so playing BS with carry items was OK. But now...I think items like Sange and Yasha or whatever are pretty much a waste of gold on the new BS, for the same reason why they're a waste of gold on Nyx Assassin. You can still go carry items as luxuries in the late game but they're pretty inefficient, at best you get a semi-carry who can't carry the late game anyways so I think going utility like sheepstick is the best once you reach late game.

BS is essentially a jungler now. Bloodrage is just made for jungling, and he jungles pretty fast actually (50-60 last hits in 10 mins). I guess in theory you could play him mid but it's just sooo easily countered (by heavy harassment, roaming supports, and basically freefarming the lane while laughing at his face because he can't kill you : TP scroll best item xD). So I never liked BS mid but it's still a possibility.

For me there are two builds that make sense on the hero now

- Pure nuker : Ethereal Blade/dagon/ Force Staff/ Eul's Scepter of Divinity

This is the old pub scrub build on BS, which focuses only on burst damage. It used to be pretty trash with the old BS. but now there's a huge change that makes it viable and actually really good :

Bloodseeker can amplify his own damage by 96%

Yes, 96% and not 40% because you can cast Bloodrage both on you AND on the enemy and it will amplify the damage twice. Yes this works on items. Look at the wiki if you have any doubts. I've tested it and it works.

So this really wants to make you play a nuking BS. Imagine : a dagon on BS doesn't deal 400 damage, it deals 800 damage! A Force Staff doesn't deal the old ****py 360 damage at max Rupture level, it deals 720 pure damage! You get the idea, double nuke power is imba, you're basically Arc Warden now xD

The Eul's Scepter of Divinity is here for two reasons. First, it breaks Town Portal Scrolls, the ultimate BS counter. And second, it gives you a reliable way to hit Blood Rite every time.

Basic combo without ult : Bloodrage yourself -> Eul's Scepter of Divinity -> Blood Rite -> Bloodrage enemy as he lands -> Ethereal Blade -> dagon.

Assuming average primary stat of 61, Eblade + dagon 2 = 731 damage after reductions, and Eblade + Dagon 5 = 1046 damage after reductions (I already took into account the natural magic resist of 25%). And Blood rite = 240 pure damage.
When you multiply all this by 1.96 for double Bloodrage, you get
Basic combo without ult : 1903 PURE damage (dagon 2)
Basic combo without ult : 2520 PURE damage (dagon 5)

So without EVEN using your ult, you instantly blow up any hero who has less than 2500 HP. Yes, we just made a 2500 pure damage nuke, this is Dota 1 Gambler level. This baby has a 30 second cooldown and you have all the mana sustain you need from Euls to spam it as much as you want. You become basically Lina on crack.

But then for more pew pew power :

Full combo with ult : Bloodrage yourself -> Rupture -> Eul's Scepter of Divinity (optional) -> Blood Rite -> Bloodrage enemy as he lands -> Ethereal Blade -> dagon -> Force Staff.

Same values for Eblade + dagon. Force Staff with level 3 ult = 360 pure damage. Euls is optional but I really love it because it prevents TP scrolls shenanigans, prevents the enemy from juking, etc. Makes the combo 100% reliable.
You're basically using the ult as a nuke with forcestaff which deals 360 damage at max level, but with the 1.96* amplification it's now 705 pure damage. Just add that to the rest

Full combo with ult : 2608 PURE damage (dagon 2)
Full combo with ult : 3225 PURE damage (dagon 5)

Ultra comboooooo! You can solo kill anyone in 1 shot if he has less than 3200 HP. And if he has more (lol) you can still chase him down.

Best thing is, everything is expressed in *pure* damage. In comparison, an Aghanim's Scepter Laguna Blade deals only 950 pure damage.

Now what if we add in an Orchid Malevolence? Or a Refresher Orb? xD

- Semi-support/utility

Example : Mekansm/ Eul's Scepter of Divinity/ Force Staff/ Blink Dagger/ Pipe of Insight/ Vladmir's Offering/ Scythe of Vyse...

In this build you're basically Enigma, a jungler who focuses on farming utility items quickly but can still pressure the safe lane pretty hard. Semi-support because you're not much of a lane support or a roaming support, you spend most time in the jungle, but if needed an early Bloodrage + Blood Rite combo is still pretty good for early kills. Kind of a Chen/ Enchantress playstyle.

Bloodseeker's skills are completely item-independent so you can focus on getting utility items for your team. Your role is to initiate ganks and teamfights with Rupture into Blood Rite and Bloodrage the enemy hero for additional damage (or bloodrage your carry). All while being way more useful applying buffs to your whole team and disabling rather than trying to right-click.

What do you think? Is BS the new Nyx, who is to become a support/initiator in serious games and an Eblade/Dagon burst lord in pubs?

The big difference is he does have high agi gain (+3), so has some options when it comes to late game damage output...but yeah, his nuking potential does need to be explored more. Nyx is a support/semi-carry/ganker depending on where you play him, I can kinda see BS filling the same role.

He definitely needs farm to be effective, so you either need to jungle or have a lane where you can get at least some farm...so not exactly a support. Definitely fits in to a global nukers/gankers lineup, some team fight and initiation potential, can now support somewhat as some of his damage can be passed on to other heroes.

You are a genius, Mr. Hamstertamer. I'm definitely trying this out.

My only question is, isn't the nuking build very single target intensive? In late game, when you have your full item arsenal, in a teamfight you won't have much time to burst a hero down without getting noticed by their team; and its highly unlikely you will get all 5 heroes in your Blood Rite.

Maybe I just misread and on higher level games you have to go support/utility.

Any thoughts on an item I used to hate on Bloodseeker: Blade Mail? I mean, until you posted this I started thinking, if you take more damage, would they take even more from that Blade Mail?

Could we see a Heart of Tarrasque, Blade Mail, Heaven's Halberd Bloodseeker? Some disabler tank with teamfight potential?

Can't wait for Sing Sing to do a funky Bloodseeker build.

Blade Mail works actually, damage gets amplified by Bloodrage on yourself. Blademail is good if you want to run in and right click because you will get focused hard if you do that. Pretty useless in a build like mine tho.

I'm still a bit confused about what he can do. Right now I see him a bit like a Doom for teamfights, isolating and bursting a key enemy hero.

In teamfights I'd go more for something like :

Bloodrage yourself -> Blink Dagger -> Rupture -> Bloodrage enemy -> Blood Rite centered on target -> Ethereal Blade -> dagon

This combo is almost instant becuase you don't use Euls. This way the target will always take the Blood Rite damage, if he walks away he will take the damage from rupture. And his teammates will probably need to walk away or tank an unpleasant nuke + silence. And then your team can jump on them. Can replace blink by just forcestaffing in.

With Refresher Orb like Doom to be a baller?

Basically the more I think about it the more I think you should focus on initiation with this hero and not on right click.

Yeah if you are going to go this huge nuke build, Id definitely consider refresher still as a last item.

Adds damage, dps, and more int for your mana pool and regen, assuming he has enough to use refresher. Assuming he would with level 5 dagon

You cannot double Bloodrage people unless you Bloodrage yourself premtively. Which could end up being really, really bad at times. Thirst still gives you right click. I still like his mop - up style of play.

I don't know what to think. Pub-seeker still can be seen as a carry (I hate my teammates: STOP FEEDING THE SNOWBALL HERO!), but I must try this nuke combo. Holy cow. Thanks for the idea, you brilliant genius, you!

As a support/utility, Bloodseeker doesn't seem so bad any more. If you used blood rage on Witch Doctor, Venomancer, Death Prophet, Warlock, etc would it increase their ultimates damage?