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Theory Exercise 4: Complete Counter Draft

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Theory Exercise 4: Complete Counter Draft 13 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 19, 2014 7:46pm | Report

THEORY EXERCISE 4



HELLLOOOO MAH FRUNDSSSSS!!!!

How is everyone? good? good good good... SO im back with a new theory exercise and this one is ... more important so HEAPS OF PEOPLE DO IT OK!!!! OR ILL DO THINGS AT PLACES .... WITH STUFF ... YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!

OK so the theory exercise this week is quite simple.

Draft against these two Drafts!!! Explain the reasons behind the picks!!



DRAFT ONE!




BANS:

Doom
Death Prophet
Lycan
Timbersaw
Drow Ranger

PICKS:

Terrorblade
Razor
Centaur Warrunner
Treant Protector or Rubick
Enigma or Witch Doctor

(The alternative picks are also in there because in the following choices you guys make i would like it if you picked one or the other and said why you did.)



DRAFT TWO!!



BANS:

Terrorblade
Brewmaster
Lycan
Mirana
Earthshaker

PICKS:

Faceless Void
Death Prophet
Centaur Warrunner or Slark
Jakiro
Skywrath Mage




OK PEOPLE ... READY SET ........GO!!!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by BKvoiceover » October 19, 2014 9:48pm | Report
Draft One:

First thing to discuss is who counters each individual hero, from there you can determine a group strategy.

First off, Terrorblade. Very difficult to kill in the late game, but pretty easy to disrupt in the early game. How can you disrupt him? Any form of magic damage disable, either a stun, or slow. TB has a lot of armor so focus on magic damage. That is why one of the best counters to TB is Lion. TB will usually attempt to wait to get to very low hp to cast Sunder. Before this happens Lion can use Earth Spike, Hex, Finger of Death and boom. Death.

Next Up, we have Razor. One of Razor's biggest strengths is Static Link which drains damage from the target. But if one has enough movement speed, or an escape mechanism they can break the link before too much damage is drained. Some heroes like this include Mirana, Slark, Queen of Pain, or Anti-Mage. Also Razor has Unstable Current, which increases his movement speed and also slows a target should they cast a point target spell on him. So unreliable disables such as Leshrac's Earth Split, Nyx Assassin's Impale, and Lina's Light Strike Array work wonders against him.

Next is Centaur Warrunner . One of the things that makes Centaur great is his high hp. Who is really good at countering that? Lifestealer. His feast ability drains hp based on the target's maximum hp which means that is going to be a lot of hp Lifestealer will get back. Plus LS can dodge Hoof Stomp, Double Edge, and Stampede with his Rage ability.

Treant Protector has similar weaknesses against Lifestealer. High hp makes LS get more out of Feast, and Rage will disjoint Leech Seed as well as break down his Living Armor much quicker.

and my favorite counter to Enigma as some of you might know is Disruptor. Kinetic Field to break up team positioning, and Static Storm to prevent him from using Black Hole and Blink Dagger.

So a rough draft that I think would work for such a situation would be.


Position 1: Lifestealer-Safe Lane
Reasons: With a few high hp heroes Lifestealer will have a lot of success against Razor, Centaur Warrunner , and Treant Protector with his Feast passive. Also, Rage will disjoint a lot of this team's disables.

Position 2: Mirana-Mid
Reasons: An easy escape from Static Link, as well as being able to gank the safelane easily with Slark's Pounce, and her Sacred Arrow.

Position 3: Slark-Offlane
Reasons: His Pounce will allow him to play more offensively without much danger from the safe lane. Also Dark Pact will remove the majority of debuffs the opposing team might have like Hoof Stomp, Malefice, and Leech Seed.

Position 4: Disruptor-Safe Lane
Reasons: If Enigma blinks in to use Black Hole, Disruptor can blink him back. This Basically destroys a lot of their team's initiation power. Also makes Stampede fairly useless because he can just Glimpse an enemy right back into the fight.

Position 5: Lion-Safe Lane
Reasons: He destroys TB with his high damage nukes and disables. Hex is a great disable for a lot of the opposing team's heroes, and Mana Drain will starve heroes on the opposing team for mana. Especially the big strength, and agility heroes who already tend to have a lot of mana problems early on.


This lineup will go for a lot of early ganks and teamfights in an attempt to end the game before any of the opposing heroes gain enough hp and mana to survive to constant onslaught of this early/mid game oriented team.

Its late so I will write up a counter-draft for the second draft another time. Good night all, hope you enjoyed this read :)

See you on the battlefield,

-BK

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 20, 2014 5:06pm | Report
oh thats awesome !!

ok so if you didnt have Disruptor who would you place in there instead?

also the disrupter pick relies on him not getting into fights how would you deal with it if he got caught out in a fight ?

Lifestealer is a great pick up but static link if gotten off before Rage still stays on. so with the potential to steal most of his damage fights would be hard no?

also Feast is countered by Stampede so ganking would require at least one other to be successful.

its actually a really good draft. hmmm thanks gives us a lot to think about.


also question: out of the bans if you could change one of your picks for one of the bans which one and why???

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » October 20, 2014 6:30pm | Report
I'd be careful with that Lifestealer pick, Static Link goes through Rage (unless it got patched and I didn't notice, so razor reallly owns LS, so having him as your safelane carry when there is a strong counter pick against him is risky.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » October 20, 2014 6:53pm | Report
Alright I'm drafting against your second scenario:

Mid: Pugna. He offers a lot of tools that can neutralize several members of their line-up. Nether Ward can destroy Skywrath, and Decrepify can be a great in nullifying a Chronospere.

Safelane: Dragon Knight. His high armor and tower pushing ability make him a phenomenal counter to DP, as well as being hard to kill in a chrono.

Safelane Supports(tri-lane): Dazzle and Rubick This combo gives you fair ganking ability, while also offering armor, magic resistance, and of course shallow graave. This would be a scary tri to go up against, and could rotate well.

Offlane: I had trouble with this one, but weirdly enough I'm gonna roll with Windranger. Built with a little more damage in mind, she could be a threat to towers and heroes alike.

Now The most important part of my draft is that all three lanes can put pressure on their tower. This means that when DP pops her ult to secure a tower with her team, she might lose two in return, which would be a very important mechanic in this game.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » October 20, 2014 11:06pm | Report
So against Draft One I'll run an aggressive trilane of Luna, Skywrath Mage and Lion because against Treant/Rubick and Terrorblade they pretty much can't lose the lane. Lategame, Luna can also tear apart Terrorblade's illusions and that team doesn't have enough nukes to shut down her midgame.

For mid I'll go for a Night Stalker - buffed a lot recently, long silence, ministun to stop Enigma ult, also tanky which fills out a weakness in the trilane. Also is faster than Razor and can break Static Link fairly easily, and he feeds on Heroes like Rubick, Enigma, Witch Doctor and Terrorblade.

Solo safelane, I'll take a Silencer. He'll be able to shut down Centaur offlane, and disrupt the enemy teamfight with the press of one button. Then of course they'll have a Night Stalker and a Luna in their face with Skywrath and Lion sitting at the back nuking like mad.

I'll do Draft 2 later.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » October 22, 2014 4:08am | Report

BEFORE STARTING: WHAT TOOK YOU SO LONG SMUGGLES I'VE BEEN WAITING THIS FOR SO LONG




DRAFT 1


LANES


MID

Brewmaster against Razor. He is tanky and doesnt give a damn about Static Link. Primal Split would burst Razor down, and discourages Static Link. He can destroys Black Hole from a distance. He counters Terrorblade as well, Permanent Immolation, Pulverize, and Dispel Magic. And correct me if im wrong, but Dispel Magic can be used against Overgrowth. Sunder is almost useless as well, if it can be used against spirits, of course.


SAFELANE

Luna safelane. I would go Faceless Void instead, but Centaur Warruner's abilities makes melee seems a bit off. One misposition and boom! Death Void. Luna is ranged, has high move speed, and Eclipse to discourage enemy initiation. He clears illusions quick, and her high move speed
making Sunder and Static Link harder to land.


OFFLANE

Legion Commander
Illusion hero in a tri/dual lane? Legion Commander much? She can harass really well and really strong, and her Duel is actually effective to lock down hard carries in the late game(5 seconds!), assuming she won duels- which Im sure she would. She can also helm allies with Press the Attack's dispel. Can also prevent Static Link if done fast enough.

Jakiro
Increase the lane presence more. Liquid Fire is effective to push, harass, and destroys those Living Armor. He has a slow, stun, and most importantly a powerful lane nuke. Also, the long range on Ice Path helps stopping those Black Holes.

Lion
Actually an ideal pick against Terrorblade. As mentioned by others, he has a nuke and stun, a plain powerful disable, and a powerful nuke. However, what most people misses is that Mana Drain destroys illusions instantly. Powerful counterpick, and synergises well with Duel.


IN TERMS OF BANS

Witch Doctor
I really want to shut down that Terrorblade, and thus I ban this guy. Living Armor is much easier to counter, and with no actual disable in the lane killing Terrorblade is very easy. The Paralyzing Cask is just too irritating to deal with.

Rubick
Again, I want to shut that Terrorblade. With only Treant Protector as the lane support, Terrorblade now has no help to actually stop the enemy's skirmish to kill him in the early game. Also, I have some spells too precious to let the enemy steals.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 22, 2014 10:25pm | Report
Unscathed wrote:

Brewmaster against Razor. He is tanky and doesnt give a damn about Static Link.


he does give a damn in fact it ruins him.brew will lose mid hard against a razor.

Unscathed wrote:

Luna safelane.


decent pick though she is naturally squishy and Static Link can possibly steal all her damage.

Unscathed wrote:

Legion Commander
Illusion hero in a tri/dual lane? Legion Commander much? She can harass really well and really strong, and her Duel is actually effective to lock down hard carries in the late game(5 seconds!), assuming she won duels- which Im sure she would. She can also helm allies with Press the Attack's dispel. Can also prevent Static Link if done fast enough.

Jakiro
Increase the lane presence more. Liquid Fire is effective to push, harass, and destroys those Living Armor. He has a slow, stun, and most importantly a powerful lane nuke. Also, the long range on Ice Path helps stopping those Black Holes.

Lion
Actually an ideal pick against Terrorblade. As mentioned by others, he has a nuke and stun, a plain powerful disable, and a powerful nuke. However, what most people misses is that Mana Drain destroys illusions instantly. Powerful counterpick, and synergises well with Duel.


this is probably the strongest aspect of your draft though legion needs quick six and blink/sb ...this can really hurt you mid game since unless she gets kills shes going to be useless.

jakiro and lion are really solid.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ninecent » October 23, 2014 6:46pm | Report

Draft One


Vengeful Spirit Safelane/Roaming Support
Weaver Offlane
Queen of Pain Midlane
Tiny Safelane
Lion Safelane/Roaming Support



Note: This is up against the Terrorblade/Razor/Cent/Treant/Witch Doctor lineup.

Okay, time to explain. Vengeful Spirit provides two things that are important: A BKB-piercing channel-breaking ultimate, and also a strong aura that benefits Tiny greatly in the mid game. Also is a good roaming support to help out other lanes. Weaver I feel is the greatest carry to pick against a Terrorblade/ Razor lineup. Get sundered? Ult. Get static linked? Shukuchi. Queen of Pain is an okay midlane choice in this situation imo, but brings a lot to the team in term of magic damage and teamfight ability. Tiny brings some much needed durability and a good stun, along with a strong pushing ability once he gets aghs. Lion is here to bring the much needed disabling power, mana drain, and face-wrecking ult. All in all, I feel like I made a good draft against the enemy team.

I might edit in my draft against Draft 2

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » October 23, 2014 7:12pm | Report
Silencer/ Pugna - offlane support
Shadow Shaman - safelane support
Timbersaw - midlane
Juggernaut- safelane carry
Medusa -offlane carry

Timbersaw can go through the opposite team like swiss cheese, so can Juggernaut, leading to quick pickoffs. Medusa+ Juggernaut is a very underrated combo as it does literally ****LOADS of damage. this, combined with shadow shaman's physical ultimate, guys you have the ultimate team pushing combination that exists.Sure, we don't have as many disables, but our carry has magic immunity and our support punishes for using spells.

Also, Curse of the silent + Mystic Snake combo can easily go through Tiny's mana early on, making the trilane kind of redundant,as silencer and medusa can easily not-push the lane, while Shadow Shaman+ Juggernaut combo against weaver is pretty much free gold :D.

When Timbersaw gets level 4, he can easily gank any of the lanes for a quick kill.

i'm thinking about putting medusa mid, timber offlane and a trilane in safelane though.... opinions please :D

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