What to do if your losing a lane, badly.

i have watched the first ~20 minutes of the replay and there are some things i think you could improve upon.

1. (and most likely the most important point) You were pretty exp-starved for the first 10 minutes of the game. I know that shadow shaman isnt a particullary good babysitter for heroes like Riki so your killing potential is rather limited. One thing you could have done, was to stack AND (!) pull the neutral creep camp near your lane. This provides insane lane control (as you are basically ALWAYS near your own tower and killing you is therefor harder) AND denies the enemy laners exp and gold since your lane creeps will die to the neutrals. Also it is a nice tool to increase the exp/gold gain for you and your teammate (one takes the neutrals, while the other one stays in lane and takes the radiant creeps).

2. This is advice on how to lane against that particular TA + Silencer combo. Try to spread out! Curse of the Silent ALWAYS hit both of you. When goin up against a Silencer or an Undying for the next time, try to be more aware of your positioning, since hitting Curse on 2 targets is limiting your lane control even more. Also dont try to waste any mana casting Ether Shock on a Templar Assassin that has Refrection up. I know this is a pain, but if you want to harass a TA you have to remove her sield first, elsewise it is just a 0 damage mana waste.

3. Be more active once you hit level 6. Maybe this was more of a team-communication issue, but be sure to make pushes happen once Mass Serpent Wards are available. The enemy team didnt really have any tools of dealing with pushes (except the Chronosphere maybe) so taking towers with your wards alone could have been quite possible. Even if you cant take the tower keeping the pressure up is a good idea, since it basically forces the enemy team to react with some serious hero-rotations, which a) stops them from farming and b) gives your underfarmed carries an opportunity to farm up on other parts of the map as well. Even if the enemy team isnt commiting to a def you still get some tower gold and (more importantly) map conroll.

(4) just some general tips: At one point (i believe it was a bit past the 9th minute mark) TA dove your tower to get a solo kill on you (in which she succeded). Shadow Shaman is one of the most dangerous heroes to tower-dive in the earlier stages of the game. If you see something like that, just hug your tower and CC her to death. Since your creeps AND tower hit her, her shield was already gone by the time she reached you, so a Hex followed up a Shackle would have most definitely resulted in her death. Getting Observer Wards as a support asap surely is great, but if you can try to get the Courier first. When your midlane is doin realy well (and thats what Viper did) there is nothing more painfull, as to fall behind the enemy hero in farm because of the lack of items. If you are the solo support getting wards AND a donkey (i know, its a pain) at the very start is still the best thing you can do.

Everything else bascially has already been said by the others :)

hope this helps for your future games

True, the person who dies is almost always responsible for getting themselves killed. The only exceptions would be bad use of Force Staff, Toss, Snowball, etc.

These things aren't important tbh. If you're looking at KDA, and focus on 20 minute Arcane Boots, you're not looking in the right area for improvement.

Instead, look at each death:-

• Did you achieve something before/slightly after you died? Was it worth it?
• Could you have been effective in that Teamfight/Gank, or should you have backed off before you got caught out?
• Could you have seen the Teamfight/Gank coming, and if not, should you have been where you were at that time when you didn't know where the other Team was? etc.

The problem is, that both Templar Assassin and Silencer have much greater Harrass than you do with Psi Blades and Curse of the Silent. Never pick a fight you've already lost. Leaving your Lane was the right decision, and yes you should have done it earlier. If Silencer is just sitting in Lane, then him and Templar Assassin will only get Half the Exp and Farm from that Lane anyway, so neither of them are Free-Farming.

If you'd Roamed round the map looking for Kills, e.g., helping Viper get First Blood on Pudge at around 00:45, then rotating Top for a Gank, your Team might have been able to fight back 4 vs 5 ( Riki was useless as soon as he picked a weak Laner against a Team of Strong Laners...and Spirit Breaker).

Never, ever, make an Aggressive Tri-Lane with people you don't know, even if it's Captain's Mode you should still question if a Dual Lane/Safe Tri-Lane wouldn't be better. Most people in your Matchmaking Pool don't even know what a Tri-Lane is, let alone how to run an Aggressive Tri-Lane successfully.

If you had run an Aggressive Tri-Lane, you and the other 2 Heroes in that Lane would have been outlevelled by Troll Warlord and Drow Ranger, and would have been more likely to Feed them to Boot.

Don't take this the wrong way, but in this game, the only way you were effective was by buying Wards. This still makes you the best person on your Team as the rest of them were completely useless.

Most people when starting out think that as a Support they should be sitting in the Lane, Harrassing, upgrading the Courier and buying Wards, Arcane Boots and Mekansm. This can work, but only for a few Heroes, Shadow Shaman just barely fits this, but he works better as a true Support.

If you want to win your Dual Lanes as a Support, then pick Heroes who can make life absolutely miserable for the other Heroes in your Lane, i.e. Silencer (you've already seen ho annoying it is to Lane against him 8{D ) and Warlock with Fatal Bonds. These are the only 2 Heroes you could have saved that Riki with.

If you want to be effective with Heroes like Shadow Shaman, Venomancer and other Push based Supports, you need a Team that can take advantage of your Picks and you need to Roam early on (maybe Pull the Creep Wave for some Farm, then leave to Roam and Gank even though you'll still be lvl1)

That cant have been easy for you... Well done.

Yeah i know, i have got stacking/pulling in my CV, i was just obsessed with trying to help the Riki get some last hits. I know, looking back, that was the wrong way about it and i should have played the wider game.



I'll bear these in mind. Haven't played either Char, so not great on how they work. Didn't have a clue about A's shield :-/ N00b



Yeah, as others have mentioned as well. Especially in Duel situations i need to not get bogged down in laning with Shadow Shaman.



I knew while i was running (at this point i had just bought my brown boots and they were sitting in base!) it was the wrong decision. But by that point i thought i might reach the next creep wave and they would finish her. Poor decision.

The courier i am not taking responsibility for. I clearly asked someone else to buy the courier, several times, ( Spirit Breaker would have been the #4 here) and i said i was going to be the Ward jockey. I know it can fall on the #5 to buy everything, but i need Mana Boots to do anything so i was trying to squeeze any gold possible (though the way the game progressed it didn't show).
I do often buy it first, but on this occasion i thought we were suited to split it up a little.

You should have bought both Observer Wards and the Animal Courier at the start, that leaves you with enough gold for Tango, Healing Salve and a Clarity. I know it doesn't seem like much, but believe it or not, you don't need to Rush your Arcane Boots. You just need to be more careful with your Mana.

I'm guessing that you took Ether Shock at lvl1 for Harrass, even if you didn't, you should take either Hex or Shackles 1st anyway. Lvl1 Ether Shock is just a waste of Mana at lvl1, the only time you should use it in in a Gank/Teamfight for extra Burst Damage, and only if you think the Hero(es) you are targeting are going to die afterwards. Hex and Shackles can setup a Kill for a Hero with good Damage at lvl1, e.g. Juggernaut, Gyrocopter, Leshrac, Skywrath Mage, etc.

Romark, you should give Jakiro a try. He is a good tower pusher, has free harass, has a decent control, and is able to stop Void from even stepping foot inside his own chrono.

Also, half the blame has to go to the guy who picked Riki. Riki gets countered easily by more experienced players.

Overall, your team was destined to lose just due to the heroes your team picked. They pretty much expected you to support all of their greedy butts.

Your team just had too much dead weight in Riki and Breaker.

In hindsight, yes. I agree. But i really don't see that Spirit Breaker buying the courier would have been a problem either.

Yes that was the case. I'll change to taking Hex first, especially in these sort of situations.

For your other post. All agreed with completely.



Hell no.



I think, mid-game, with a more co-ordinated team, potentially. In this case, no. Definitely should have backed more often than not.



A couple early i definitely should have. Terrible.

A couple of the main things from this thread:

• Do not pick Shadow Shaman against a team with strong Harass.
• (Try) To get a team push strat if i do chose him.
• Early make use of stacking/pulling the jungle creeps more.
• As soon as lvl6 hits start roaming more.

Really appreciated all. Hopefully next time i post a dotabuff game it will be for more positive reasons!

Romark

Oh I love Jakiro. If i was picking later i probably would have gone him.

I think picking/counter-picking is something im still poor at... So many Heroes!

There was a huge problem in your team actually : you had no teamfight.

Riki and Spirit Breaker : two single target gankers who are pretty much useless in teamfights.
Troll Warlord : a solid carry, but with no specific teamfight skill
Shadow Shaman : Single target disabler who specializes in ganking and pushing.
Viper : single target ganker/semicarry

You get the idea? In pubs people pick too many gankers and their teamfight sucks. Against a team like that you can just 5-man the whole game and beat them easily, With Silencer and Faceless Void, the enemy team could beat you in teamfights without much problem.

Generally a big part of playing support is initiating teamfights. that's why initiators like Venomancer, Earthshaker, Disruptor etc are pretty good pub heroes. It's important to have a good contribution to teamfights when playing support, at least that's what I think. You need an initiator in every team, and you can't win teamfights without one.

Just remember you're in a pub team, so if you do pick a support, be willing and able to buy both an Animal Courier and Observer Wards. This leaves you enough for some regen and branches.

Just picture this conversation in your head every time you think about asking SB or one his ilk to buy a courier:

: Hey buddy, I'll be the #5 and ward, if you could please see fit to buy the courier.

: GRRAAAAHHH LEEEROYYYYYY

: Yes, that's nice, now could you please buy the courier?

: SPACE COW SMASH. SPACE COW IS BEST HERO YAH.

: Really, we need a courier, could you buy it?

: GRAH. SPACE COW NOT SUPPORT, YOU SUPPORT, PUNY SHAMAN BUY TINY DONKEY.

: But I'm quite a farm dependent hero for a #5, and we'll have a tricky lane, couldn't you help out just a little?

:: *"&!&(("##@@@**!!!! <charges into certain death>

This is the polite version btw :).

If you're the only support (or the only one likely to be), just pick a less farm dependent hero (e.g. anyone with mana sustain or low costs - Crystal Maiden, Jakiro, Keeper of the Light, Lion, Lich etc - i.e. anyone who can just buy Tranquil Boots and sustain mana). Also, remember that Clarity potions give you up to 150 mana a pop - more than you get from use of Arcane Boots - ok it's not a long term solution, but needs must sometimes.

Hahaha I'll remember this conversation!