The ideas to change Venomancer - Rework.

its started ^^^^

Sadly Kyfoid has caused anyone with an original opinion to be attacked by multiple flame-esque comments and almost personal attacks. I suggest you guys tone it down, because that just breeds a bad community.

As for the carry Veno, in old Dota I always used to play him carry with Shadow Blade and Yasha. But when I started watching TI on the Dota 2 client I realized his potential as support. In his current state he cannot carry. If his plague wards are replaced with a scalable or farming ability then perhaps he could become a viable carry. Giving him a skill similar to Viper is redundant in my opinion. Rather a flash farm skill, or an ability that has some form of lategame scale.

I'm glad someone from the community has addressed this. This has been bothering me for awhile but there hasn't been an incident big enough to directly respond to this publicly. I don't find the Kt;dr or similar unproductive posts amusing or appropriate. This is a forum for helping other members of the dota community and providing friendly chat, but some members seem to think its become a chatterbox of sorts where they can belittle other members without any sort of dignity.

As far as that goes though, I will have to agree with most everyone in here. Venomancer is not and should not be a hard carry, at times a semi-carry Veno is appropriate but for general strategic implication there's no need for Venomancer to be more than a support. He fills a role that many other supports don't, and does a good job at it. There's no need to disrupt the support pool anyways, there's plenty of variations of carries but not everyone is an effective support and I can appreciate Veno for what he is in the current metagame.

Venomancer doesn't need a Shadow Blade as much as Drow Ranger per se, and can't use it as efficiently either. Venomancer's support tag means that he is most usefull at placing Observer Wards, buying the courier, and helping his carry farm and score kills so HE can get his core items earlier, while avoiding any incoming ganks by simple ward placement and helping him deal with harassment.

If you play a Venomancer like a carry you WILL LOSE against any COMPETENT team because chances are, that the enemy team WILL HAVE A SUPPORT, and a proper carry that will by the way ALWAYS outcarry a venomancer.

In short, understandable terms; You cannot STEAL LAST HITS from your carry, deny him wards, courier, dust, force staff, mek, because you want to carry a hero that will NEVER be capable of competing with ANY OTHER CARRY. Venomancer cannot farm as efficiently as Alchemist , jungle as quickly as Lone Druid or deal the damage of a 6 slotted Omnislash.

Announcing I was a prick was a blunt way of stating I was wrong, obviously I could've addressed things in a very different way, and I apologize for bringing the military attitude to the forums, very blunt, brash individual. By no means was I right, nor am I fishing for an excuse to ease out of the fact I countered what I perceived as trolling, with trolling, and personal attacks. So Fear for that I do apologize, I do spend a lot of time on dota assisting newer players, A LOT, so by no means were my responses a reflexion of how I carry myself as a dota player (the inner HoN player came out I'm afraid).
At the very least, I'm glad we could at least turn the conversation around in discussing witch doctor as the forums are intended (for the most part)

He makes better use of a Shadow Blade than a Drow (although Blink Dagger is better imo), simply because of his Ult, he can walk in Ult, and it will be too late for anyone to do anything about it. If a Drow Ranger uses a Shadow Blade, sure, she can Silence and Frost Arrows a traget, but she's easily stopped before she can do any major Damage. Imo Poison Nova is a better Initiation skill than Silence in most situations and Initiating is what a Shadow Blade is all about.

If being eventually outcarried was a problem, we'd be seeing thenlikes of Phantom Lancer, Spectre, etc. in every game. In my earlier post, I showed a Competetive match where a Position 1 Nightstalker managed to win a game, and this was from a time when Hard Carries where Picked up almost every game. Sometimes it's better to have a Position 1 who will be immensely strong early on, because you intend to finish before the other Team can catch up, e.g. Pugna, Razor, Viper, etc.

True, an Alchemist is better at Farming in general due to Acid Spray, and while Venomancer can't Farm the jungle, a Lone Druid is only a little less terrible at Jungling. Finally, yes, Poison Nova can deal more damage in Teamfights than Omnislash, not to mention, it isn't as easy to avoid the damage.

Poison Nova combined with Plague Ward Venomous Gale just make Venomancer a dps machine, the dots in conjunction with one another mean kills. Veno, essentially, will get to the point where he blinks in ultis, throws out gale and dies, job done effectively (not insinuating he always does, merely a good chance). Great early threat in lane, can push the hell out of a lane with Plague Ward, and set up/secure kills with Venomous Gale which ends up being what? A 600 damage dot at level 4. It's insanely good. There's also the elders dive power of gale with a wall of wards. The hero is super good, I just wouldn't want him as a carry, I enjoy him thoroughly as he is.

A note on Venomancer wards: I haven't noticed if they patched this yet but, if you have a. Shadow Fiend and Venomancer, level plague wards first, go to Roshan, tag roshan with wards, he attacks them, shadow fiend should be able to deny them for souls, so he ends up landing in mid with 6-7 soul head start which is pretty big early on.

yea ... no.

explanation:

i stand by my comments, i was taught if you say something, then you meant to say it and if you mean something then you say it.

comments made in humour will always be misconstrued. pointed attacks of a personal nature never happened. comments were made concerning the type of content of posts, and everything said was pointed towards the subject matter. the definition of the subject matter changed throughout the thread.

my comments concerning the threads relation to Kyfoid thread is credible and more a way to point out that this might be a troll. if the administrators feel i was out of line then they may notify me of this. but as such and until they do, if i feel i have an opinion concerning a stupid thread i will say so and i most DEFINITELY instruct people to do the same to any of my threads, if i make a thread which people feel is stupid i want you to come out and say it

"Smuggels this thread is stupid"

and then tell me why, and i will LISTEN to the reasons why and if they are correct, i will say

"hey, your right this thread is stupid"

the ability to objectively look at ones own opinion and change it if proved incorrect, instead of holding onto it in the face of overwhelming proof, is sadly dying and that's why we have all the problems we have.

honesty breeds self reflection which breeds intelligence


explanation over haha

i personally think witch doctor needs to break dance during his ulti ... just saying