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Why is Vlads Offering such a trap to new players?

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Forum » General Discussion » Why is Vlads Offering such a trap to new players? 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by sulaxrox » September 28, 2013 3:59pm | Report
I was asked to give positive feedback and to mentor a frustrated friend who's been playing for awhile from the clan I used to play in and his newer buddy, so this may be a bit of the same that some of you have seen.

It was a single draft game I had Gyrocopter, they'd pick skeleton King and Venge. My buddy wanted mid and did very well, while I allowed Sk to farm and Creoles off into the jungle, stacked, and double pulled (easy to flak cannon farm w gyro) and we did well..but advising item builds fell to the wayside.

Lock heart, on venge built drums, had a bottle and built Mek, not too bad as a support, he did very well considering he was our only support...but I couldn't get through to SK that vlads wasn't a good idea, he built it, and I explained why not to after the match.

Is this a trap for players who generally built lifesteal in LoL? Both of them played league. I'm seeing a trend but it's pretty frustrating trying to point out its a support item that really is only core on a few carries. Is the lifesteal what makes it such a trap? On hard carries that can benefit from it (SK already has his builtin lifesteal) isn't it a more obvious choice to go helm to transition into satanic?
I'm going to have to work on a new guide about Vlads, I'm more into helping the newer players avoid bad builds, and still trying to get across to people that BKB is a necessity in most situations as well..any thoughts?
Step 1: Pick Bristleback
Step 2: type in all chat:"GL hf"
Step 3: solo offlane
Step 4: first blood triple kill solo vs trilane
Step 5: continue head butting keyboard
Step 6: don't care, Bristleback doesn't give a ****
Step 7: screenshot repeated: BB OP comments in all chat
Step 8: alternate games with Slark pick

sulaxrox


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by samukobo » September 28, 2013 6:24pm | Report
Not really a trap, I'm sure they just aren't used to the mechanics and how the game works. Same thing applies to attempting to stack orbs, letting supports go mid, etc

If a Dota player would try to play LoL, he would most likely make bad item choices too.

They'll get used to it.
Quoted:

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samukobo
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » September 29, 2013 3:02am | Report
sulaxrox wrote:

I'm seeing a trend but it's pretty frustrating trying to point out its a support item that really is only core on a few carries.

Vladmir's Offering is also a good Late Game pickup on Supports, and situationally on Mid Game Carries like Bounty Hunter, Nightstalker, etc. especially if you have a Melee Carry that benefits from the Lifesteal but who wouldn't normally buy a Lifesteal Item.

In your game, it would have made a great pickup for Vengeful Spirit, not so much for the Lifesteal, but for the Damage Bonus stacking with Vengeance Aura, the Armour and Mana Regen would have been useful too.

+

FTW


sulaxrox wrote:

Is the lifesteal what makes it such a trap? On hard carries that can benefit from it (SK already has his builtin lifesteal) isn't it a more obvious choice to go helm to transition into satanic?

No, it isn't, Vladmir's provides a Lifesteal Aura whereas the other options provide a Lifesteal Unique Attack Modifier. Take a look at Anti-Mage, he would benefit from someone on his Team picking up a Vlads due to the bonuses he would gain from it, but a Satanic wouldn't provide him any Lifesteal at all, since he already has a UAM from Mana Break, so...

Only buy Helm of the Dominator, Satanic or Mask of Madness if you plan to use their Actives.
sulaxrox wrote:

I'm going to have to work on a new guide about Vlads, I'm more into helping the newer players avoid bad builds, and still trying to get across to people that BKB is a necessity in most situations as well..any thoughts?

I know how you fell, when I see people buying... Vanguard...I have to resist the urge to scream "OMLETTE!!!"

>


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by sulaxrox » September 29, 2013 7:56am | Report
Xyrus wrote:


Vladmir's Offering is also a good Late Game pickup on Supports, and situationally on Mid Game Carries like Bounty Hunter, Nightstalker, etc. especially if you have a Melee Carry that benefits from the Lifesteal but who wouldn't normally buy a Lifesteal Item.

In your game, it would have made a great pickup for Vengeful Spirit, not so much for the Lifesteal, but for the Damage Bonus stacking with Vengeance Aura, the Armour and Mana Regen would have been useful too.

+

FTW



No, it isn't, Vladmir's provides a Lifesteal Aura whereas the other options provide a Lifesteal Unique Attack Modifier. Take a look at Anti-Mage, he would benefit from someone on his Team picking up a Vlads due to the bonuses he would gain from it, but a Satanic wouldn't provide him any Lifesteal at all, since he already has a UAM from Mana Break, so...

Only buy Helm of the Dominator, Satanic or Mask of Madness if you plan to use their Actives.

I know how you fell, when I see people buying... Vanguard...I have to resist the urge to scream "OMLETTE!!!"

>




Sorry I quoted the whole thing..Ik vlads provides an aura, what I meant was intending helm for carries because it boosts armor, grants lifesteal solely for the carry,!and provides creep control to stack ancients or farm camps in the jungle while the hero is off doing other things. More or less I was agreeing with you lol sorry if I wore it a bit off.

Underlying point is its effectiveness as a support item, and it's picked a lot by newer players when their are much better ways to spend gold.
Step 1: Pick Bristleback
Step 2: type in all chat:"GL hf"
Step 3: solo offlane
Step 4: first blood triple kill solo vs trilane
Step 5: continue head butting keyboard
Step 6: don't care, Bristleback doesn't give a ****
Step 7: screenshot repeated: BB OP comments in all chat
Step 8: alternate games with Slark pick

sulaxrox


Notable (6)
Posts: 400
Steam: sulaxrox
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by sulaxrox » September 29, 2013 7:59am | Report
samukobo wrote:

Not really a trap, I'm sure they just aren't used to the mechanics and how the game works. Same thing applies to attempting to stack orbs, letting supports go mid, etc

If a Dota player would try to play LoL, he would most likely make bad item choices too.

They'll get used to it.


They will, I'm just trying to see the reasoning, in that sense trying to break bad habits potentially?
LoL and Dota are different games by no means am I bashing LoL, I Play or have played LoL, HoN and Dota..no hate for any of the 3..lifesteal is very prevalent in LoL, so I was pondering whether that may be the reasoning for a handful as to why vlads is so appealing. That's all
Step 1: Pick Bristleback
Step 2: type in all chat:"GL hf"
Step 3: solo offlane
Step 4: first blood triple kill solo vs trilane
Step 5: continue head butting keyboard
Step 6: don't care, Bristleback doesn't give a ****
Step 7: screenshot repeated: BB OP comments in all chat
Step 8: alternate games with Slark pick

sulaxrox


Notable (6)
Posts: 400
Steam: sulaxrox
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AbsolF » September 29, 2013 9:59am | Report
IIRC it's not about the lifesteal, it's about the % bonus damage which will still be low when rushed. Purge once said about it, and that it's situational almost every game.

Quoted:
Vladmir’s Offering(2050 gold, 16% lifesteal aura(melee only), 15% damage aura, 5 armor aura, .80 mp/sec aura, 2 regen/sec)

Vlads is created from a basilius ring(and two other items + recipe) which is a weaker version of a Vlads.

I will tell you now, NOOBS LOVE RUSHING VLADS. This is a major problem, because other than the 5 armor aura(3 of which is already gotten from the basilius ring) and the .80 mp/sec aura(.65 of which is already gotten from the basilius ring), and 2 hp/sec regen, vlads is based on percentages of total damage. Who has low damage early game? Yes, that’s right. ALL HEROES.

All a Vlads rush does is spend 1500 gold for very little benefit on a hero(usually a melee carry) that needs farm to perform well.

DO NOT RUSH VLADS.

If you want to get a vlads, ONLY get it as a 2nd-4th item, then and only then. AT LEAST upgrade your boots first. Vlads is very seriously situational almost every game.

Also, PLEASE GOD DO NOT MAKE A VLADS IF SOME NOOB ON YOUR TEAM ALREADY MADE ONE. Vlads is an aura item, which means IT DOES NOT STACK. Two people with a vlads and fighting in the same battle have seriously wasted 2050 gold between them.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » September 30, 2013 10:13am | Report
sulaxrox wrote:

I was asked to give positive feedback and to mentor a frustrated friend who's been playing for awhile from the clan I used to play in and his newer buddy, so this may be a bit of the same that some of you have seen.

It was a single draft game I had Gyrocopter, they'd pick skeleton King and Venge. My buddy wanted mid and did very well, while I allowed Sk to farm and Creoles off into the jungle, stacked, and double pulled (easy to flak cannon farm w gyro) and we did well..but advising item builds fell to the wayside.

Lock heart, on venge built drums, had a bottle and built Mek, not too bad as a support, he did very well considering he was our only support...but I couldn't get through to SK that vlads wasn't a good idea, he built it, and I explained why not to after the match.

Is this a trap for players who generally built lifesteal in LoL? Both of them played league. I'm seeing a trend but it's pretty frustrating trying to point out its a support item that really is only core on a few carries. Is the lifesteal what makes it such a trap? On hard carries that can benefit from it (SK already has his builtin lifesteal) isn't it a more obvious choice to go helm to transition into satanic?
I'm going to have to work on a new guide about Vlads, I'm more into helping the newer players avoid bad builds, and still trying to get across to people that BKB is a necessity in most situations as well..any thoughts?



I like Vlads!!! Bloodseeker Night Stalker Zeus and Vengeful Spirit all benifit from that item.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » September 30, 2013 11:58am | Report
Pu12e wrote:




I like Vlads!!! Bloodseeker Night Stalker Zeus and Vengeful Spirit all benifit from that item.


What am I reading?Waste of 2k gold on all of those heroes:

= blood bath
= ,
= ,
= , ,


You should only build Vladmir's Offering on heroes that fully benefit from it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » September 30, 2013 1:28pm | Report
Wulfstan wrote:



What am I reading?Waste of 2k gold on all of those heroes:

= blood bath
= ,
= ,
= , ,


You should only build Vladmir's Offering on heroes that fully benefit from it.



You made some great points Wulfstan, but please see my reasoning below.

Bloodseeker with Vladmir's Offering is good if he goes the Desolater or Sange & Yasha build

Night Stalker with Vladmir's Offering is good if he goes the Desolater build

Zeus with Vladmir's Offering is good because he needs the mana regen early and the item helps out his team. . . Dagon is alos a good pick up for him.

Vengeful Spirit with Vladmir's Offering is good because he needs the extra armor and it stacks with his damage aura. Pretty decent boost to mow down towers.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by samukobo » October 1, 2013 3:22am | Report
Pu12e wrote:

You made some great points Wulfstan, but please see my reasoning below.

Bloodseeker with Vladmir's Offering is good if he goes the Desolater or Sange & Yasha build

Night Stalker with Vladmir's Offering is good if he goes the Desolater build

Zeus with Vladmir's Offering is good because he needs the mana regen early and the item helps out his team. . . Dagon is alos a good pick up for him.

Vengeful Spirit with Vladmir's Offering is good because he needs the extra armor and it stacks with his damage aura. Pretty decent boost to mow down towers.


Bloodseeker needs high damage and raw survivability (HP) to kill people and get HP from Blood bath. And SnY is inefficient.

Nightstalker really doesn't need lifesteal. And Desolator isn't something you would pick up often.

Zeus is a support (generally) and what he does best is nuke down people - Vladimir's Offering does nothing to boost this nor give him enough utility (Vlads aura is nice, but for a close price you can get veil or euls) to justify the pickup, considering the price (as a support) and if you really need the mana regen, a Void Stone can do better, relative to the price.

I agree with Vengeful Spirit though.
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