Hero Discussion #3: Kaldr the Ancient Apparition

Kaldr the Ancient Apparition

Ancient Apparition is a ranged hero with impressive global presence due to his ultimate skill, Ice Blast. His ultimate also essentially makes Ancient Apparition a ‘hard counter’ to heroes who rely on healing, like Chen, Dazzle, Huskar, Necrophos, Abaddon, and the list continues.

Aghanim's Scepter on Ancient Apparition is absolutely amazing and arguably is the best item on him, improving Ice Blast from a mere 8/9/10 seconds to a beastly 17 seconds. Combined with the 40 seconds cooldown, counted as soon as the tracer is shot (not the actual blast), Ice Blast becomes a nightmare for enemy team, removing their regeneration practically half of the entire time.

Due to Aghanim's Scepter being so potent on Ancient Apparition, item order on him is often debated. Should Aghanim's Scepter be the first major item? Or perhaps the second after Eul's Scepter of Divinity for that reliable Cold Feet? Can I spare some gold for Force Staff, Mekansm, or even Urn of Shadows?

Ancient Apparition has quite a bit of flexibility in his role, ranging from 3 (mid lane) to 5. However, the lack of reliable disable and harass makes Ancient Apparition a sub-par babysitter, forcing him to be a position 4 support, gearing up to get the much useful Aghanim's Scepter in reasonable timing. Nonetheless, back in the TI 1 Ancient Apparition was often played in mid lane, explicable due to Chilling Touch being such a potent last hitting / harass skill. This also profits Ancient Apparition with an insanely fast Ice Blast and aghanim’s scepter or eul’s scepter of divinity. However, his lack of late-game scaling means that most of mid heroes benefit from getting the lane more than he does.

Interestingly, all of Ancient Apparition’s skills requires allies to be potent, making him a hero that rewards teamworks heavily. Used properly Cold Feet can deal up to 300 damage and stuns for 3.5 (!!) seconds, and Chilling Touch can deal up to a monstrous 2400 damage if applied on all 5 heroes. Also, don’t forget the SIX MILLION DOLLAR ICE VORTEX (yep, the real hidden reason of the devastating Echo Slam).

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Thus, there are a few points I’d like to discuss:

1) What is the ‘optimal’ item build on Ancient Apparition? Just how soon does he need that aghanim’s scepter? Also, which kind of boots?

2) How viable is Ancient Apparition mid? Given that he is played in mid, what item should you rush? How would you approach the game?

3) What is the ‘optimal’ skill build? Interestingly, even with the absurd potential of Chilling Touch, the most popular build in dotabuff is maxing Cold Feet then Ice Vortex, leaving Chilling Touch unleveled until level 10.

4) If you are hard countered by Ancient Apparition, what would be the best way to survive his ultimate and come out victorious?

1) As with any support, it varies per game. Ideally you'd rush Aghanim's Scepter, but you can't usually get away with that in pub matches. Often, you need Force Staff, Ghost Scepter etc beforehand in order not to feed. As to Hand of Midas AA... well, that can be controversial.

2) Not in this meta, where the mid is expected to have a higher impact. This is a meta where we're seeing a lot of tanky, but often low-damage cores like Alchemist or Bristleback, which requires the rest of the draft to have damage around them - something that an AA mid definitely doesn't provide in the extended teamfights we see these days.

3) Again, varies per game. If you're trying to zone a pesky offlaner, max either Chilling Touch or Cold Feet if paired with a reliable disable. If trying to amplify a carry's damage, say with a Luna, then max Chilling Touch. Ice Vortex is rarely something I'd max, but it enables a lot of combo potential.

4) Pick Terrorblade, cast Sunder on target, profit. Otherwise, spread out to mitigate damage from Ice Blast. The tracer can be seen on your minimap regardless on whose team AA is on, so look for that and act accordingly. Having plenty of sustain to capitalise on the downtime, however short, is necessary.

Good post.

1) I'd say pretty much a straight up Scepter rush. Brown boots and all. Maybe an Urn of Shadows if the game is particularly ganky. Otherwise, let nothing stop you.

Once you got that...Eul's is great, Veil too, you may need the more usual stuff like Force Staff or Ghost Scepter. Otherwise, you can move up to a Sheepstick, Shivas etc.

Boots wise, I'd say you're ok to stop for Tranquil Boots if you want...but I don't find them very necessary. Same with Arcane Boots, but personally I think grabbing a Point Booster means you should be ok anyway. Power Treads if you're in the rare #2 or #3 role, he's actually got quite good agi gain. Boots of Travel also fine.

2) It's viable, he can hit quite hard, early levels help, and he's actually a lot better right clicker than he gets credit for. However, I'd say this is seriously niche and there are other heroes who can do a lot more with this role.

3) My usual is E-Q-E-Q-Q-R-Q, maybe throw in a value point in Ice Vortex if it seems like a little scouting power is necessary earlier. Reasoning:

- Chilling Touch at a rune fight is super. It's also good for any early gank attempts, and harassing/hit trading.

- Cold Feet not quite as damaging, and relies on setup once you've cast. I really like laning with Slark for this as he can easily ensure it with a level 1 Pounce. Once have a level in both Q + E, it's pretty lethal.

- I tend to back off Chilling Touch after a few levels, just because I don't think you often get to land more than 4 hits in an early skirmish (people either tend to be dead or running at this point), and Cold Feet comes back online a lot sooner etc. Of course, you could get more if the situation suits.

- Value point in Ice Vortex is enough. Keeps the mana cost low, lets you scout, still gives pretty good Slow/Magic Boost.

- Get your ult every time you can. Obv.

4) AA is vulnerable to pick offs, so that's always an option. If he's in the fight you can see the ult coming and it's easier to dodge, plus optional silences, stuns etc. From distance, it's mainly being aware when he's likely to cast and not getting hit to start with. Otherwise you gotta live without heal/lifesteal etc.

About skill build, you are pretty free to chose what you want to max first, look a bit at the game. But one thing is really important and should be done in 90% of the games. Skill Chilling Touch first!

That skill just owns in rune fights and can easily let your team do an extra 300 damage on someone during rune fights, or early lane harrash. Especially if you have ranged heroes in your team. It doesn't matter that you stand at the rune togheter with a solo Crystal Maiden, facing a Beastmaster and a Timbersaw, who would normally out damage you. Just cast Chilling Touch and bully them away. Often I see Ancient Apparitions skilling Cold Feet first, which is almost never better than Chilling Touch

Nice post as well Yzreel!

I didn't play much AA but I saw a fair bit of games with him, and a point no one here mentioned like this that I think is interesting is: you can say that there are essentially two different playstyles with the hero. One where you're more involved in actual teamfights and pick-offs and thus more exposed, and the other where you are more just the shooter from almost fountain range. Players I've seen that do the first style often need a Force Staff or a Ghost Scepter and maybe some mana sustain item (like the Urn of Shadows mentioned) before they go for the Aghs, because their involvement is far greater. Players that prefer to stay back pushing lanes safely usually go for the rush Aghanim's Scepter or Hand of Midas first (and notice that the Midas is used more to get levels than to get the extra gold, since you need your ultimate maxed asap giving the strong enfasis you have on it as a hero). So this is a possible way of looking at the different item builds.

Probably the best is a mix between the two play styles, where you can still contribute with the rest of your spells for your team, but at the same time staying as back as possible to not die before commiting your Ice Blast.

Another thing no one mentioned: how to survive Ice Blast if you actually get hit. I think the answer to this depends on your role on the team. If you're a support player, just get Glimmer Cape. I never have troubles with an enemy AA with this item, and you can also use it on your allies that you want to protect the most. If you're an utility hero like an offlaner: get a Pipe of Insight. Same thing applies. For every role: get some form of extra HP that will help you stay above the Percentage Health Kill Threshold. I saw some higher level players buy items like Bracer in fountain just to make sure they would not shatter, for instance. Even a random Cloak for utility can make the difference, if you're a frair core in the early/mid game.

Everything else that I know was already mentioned :) including that Chilling Touch is so underestimated and yet so powerfull. For example, it makes trading with an AA in lane a nightmare.

Great post, Yzreel.

Ancient Apparition is one of my favourite supports by far, second to only Rubick.

Item build wise... If the game is going well, I personally like Hand of Midas. I go for it most games, sort of like this:

Boots > Midas > Aghs

This is so that your Level 16 (thus level 3 ult) and your aghs come at around the same time, creating a huge power spike that basically wins you a teamfight.

If the game is not going well, then I prefer a Eul's Scepter of Divinity. That would also mean I change my build to putting more points into Cold Feet.

Speaking of which - my skill build is very strange compared to what is considered "normal".

I max out Chilling Touch first because the skill scales phenomenally: you get one extra attack (that's an extra 50/60/70/80 damage), 10 more damage PER ATTACK, and 8 seconds off the cooldown at every rank (!).

I skill Ice Vortex at level 2, mainly for the scouting, and also, it boosts the damage of Chilling Touch (because touch damage is magical).

I skill Cold Feet at level 3, because value and also because Chilling Touch will be on cooldown after its second use.

I max Chilling Touch after, then Cold Feet. Skill ult at 6/11/16 goes without saying.

Thanks guys! :D

I suppose on the first point, most people seem to agree that running with an aghanim rush is the best build on him most of the time (of course, situational). I myself usually go with a Magic Wand --> Urn of Shadows --> Arcane Boots --> Aghanim's Scepter... and the game usually ends here lol

I think it's because of what ChiChi said, I play really close to this style "with the rest of your spells for your team, but at the same time staying as back as possible to not die before commiting your Ice Blast." Thus, I feel the need of Arcane Boots because I like spamming Ice Vortex to avoid pick-offs, and paired with Urn of Shadows they give nice sustain for the team.

Nonetheless, I feel inclined to discuss about Hand of Midas since I forgot to address that point before, I think it's absolutely legit if you can get it quite early (idk, before 10 mins?) since as the game progress amassing 4200 gold will be really difficult. Also, the early attack speed bonus might help for landing that crucial Chilling Touch. What do you guys think on this topic?

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For my skill build, I usually go E-Q-Q-W-Q-R-Q-E-E-E (I guess similar to Sando's build) because the 0.75 seconds stun increase is, in my opinion, much more useful than raw damage. I mostly take a value point in W because the early slow is nice, allowing for a situational solo setup. Nonetheless, I always max the E second.

I suppose this is also why I need Arcane Boots, a full combo of Ancient Apparition burns 500 MP, and I love 'nuking' my three spells early game (which translates to 150+80+110 = 340), and by no mean is cheap... I think I should rethink my MP management with this hero.

I need to try that brown boots aghanim rush though, sounds like it can cut like 10 minutes of the aghanim time.

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I kind forgot that Ice Blast is magical damage, kudos ChiChi for bringing it into discussion. I'm always under impression that Ice Blast is absolute and nothing can be done to it. Glimmer Cape and magic resistance items sound like a nice counter!

Nonetheless, the actual terror of Ice Blast is actually the "stopping regeneration" part, and Tera did say that the only skill bypassing it is Sunder (filthy TB picker).

At the end of the day, I suppose the best counter is still to spread out in teamfight and keep track of the tracer (cheers, love!)

i was wondering a carry build on him, Hurricane Pike + Chilling Touch + Ice Blast seems to do wonders, can this work? You will use hurricane pike on enemy and your 4 atacks will have chilling touch, to set up this do the euls + cold feet and use Ice Blast, your ult will give vision to use hurricane pike and land your 4 atacks

This sounds like an interesting idea, and not to mention Hurricane Pike is really legit on him, since Force Staff is one of the items you get situationally, and Dragon Lance provides a load of strength for 1900 gold. On topic of interesting items... Octarine Core reduces the downtime of Ice Blast to around 10 seconds.

Sounds like more reasons to get mid/carry Ancient Apparition?

I'm not really an ancient apperition player but I'm learning him. So I have the following questions

1)How good is Rod of Atos on him and should it be build? The items seems strong for him but at the same time it delays aghs or you buy it after aghs and than it is already pretty late

2)Should you buy Urn of Shadows on him? Since the item itself doesn't offer a lot for aa himself. Also, aren't there better carriers in your team often?

3)Bootwise, I see a lot of different boots with different reasons, tranquils as treads as arcanes are mentioned. I have seen a lot of high mmr players or pro players buy these boots, sometimes also just brown boots but when do you buy which boot. Sando said treads are for pos#3/2 ancient apperitions but I have seen pos 4 and 5 with them too. And it doesn't seel to bad for aa actually since they give attackspeed and health.

4)I have already seen a lot of Ice Vortex maxing. But here everyone say to get one level in it. Ice Vortex is more reliable than cold foot and in pro games Ice Vortex is often maxed. Of course they mostly combine it with magical damage spammers.

5)Some max Chilling Touch early, which I can see is good because it does a lot of damage. But it often isn't maxed. I think the skill is way more reliable as damage than his others so I would max it first, but most people don't.