DotA 2 6.86 Discussion

So is Arc Warden really the new cancer of the patch or is it just a fashion thingy? Sure, having a mid that is ungankable and can double his netwroth and abuse other clone-realted stuff is super-strong, but I doesn't he get hit by no flashfarm and little teamfight contribution early on and even in midgame since most players rush Midas->Necros III on him? Or is there another build that is more active and contributes more to the fights?

Splitpush is the way to go. Hand of Midas-> Maelstrom-> Boots of Travel-> Blink Dagger-> Divine Rapier

Everyone knows the double midas. Maelstrom is useful for splitpushing AND gives some fighting power. Boots of Travel allows you to push two lanes at once. Blink Dagger gives mobility, and the clone can use it too. Divine Rapier is so ****ing strong on this guy. His splitpush is completely foolproof and you're not very likely to lose your rapier. If the enemy let a tower or a barrack open, use double, travels, destroy tower. In fact I think it's not very dangerous to get it by the 25 minute mark.

Necrobook is okay I guess, but Divine Rapier is/is almost core on this guy.

They can still smokegank you in your jungle or smth so Rapier is not any less risky on him that Wraith King or Medusa. I definitely wouldn't get it if there isn't a need in it.

And yes, I'm talking about that exactly. With most meta heroes and tactics staying intact, I doubt meta will change and as a hero who can splitpush but has unimpressive teamfight contribution till later in the midgame Zet can still be a very "pubby" character.

I mean, he's not even Lycan or Terrorblade tier splitpusher - those melt towers ins econds so you can't rly ignore them. Zet is more like Morphling in terms of that - very hard to punish, but doesn't push well until he gets items. I think there should be a more active build for him that is effective and viable.

Edit: oh wait. I just realized you can drop your rapier manually. Hands down, this is insane then though I still wouldn't get it early.

Spark Wraith is useful in this case. It gives some vision and it hits invis heroes, which means he can still dodge a smoke gank. Putting it above ramps makes gankers harder to stay undetected.


True that his teamfight is poor. Magnetic Field, as powerful as it sounds, is not very good at fights where we needed to move 300 units every one and a half second. Flux is terrible too since it loses its effect when the enemy is clumped.

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He can farm incredibly fast though. Midas accelerates his farm immensely. Its not even 2x, more like 2.4x. Combine that with Boots of Travel+ Maelstrom and he eats the map better than Nature's Prophet. But I agreed, he is strange in that he is a splitpusher that needed space, not making it.

Hi ChiChi :)

It's by no means a powerful Agh's, building Agility on Drow is still the way to go. However, I think you're underestimating the power behind the fact that it applies on hit effects.

Meaning you can bash on the other arrows, you can Mjollnir, you can lifesteal... etc.

I will test it out for sure.

Cheers!
TheSofa

Now that I think about it, he is kinda like Meepo. Perhaps I underestimate his teamfight prowess, or not, but he can still be a powerful fighter come late game.

I've just tried to find a high ranked game with Arc Warden in it and didn't find any after scrolling like 20 of them. Seems this hero is either too new for many players to confidently abuse him in ranked or he's really not that good in high MMR matches where games follow the meta game pace.

I watched some front page 6K games with Arc Warden yesterday on the main client and what I learnt from that is that...they sucked. They were literally feeding, being clueless and having no impact...and I learnt nothing.

If you want to see some AW gameplay I saw this one on Youtube :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kfnJCpgdLKU

This is pretty solid, replay from a streamer who used to play him in dota 1.

It seems rat dota is really the name of the game. Lots of builds are viable but at the end the playstyle is the same : Lycan dota.

I think the Naga Siren build deserves a mention : Radiance/ Manta Style/ Octarine Core. I'm not yet completely sure that it's better than, well...picking Naga, but I've seen it be pretty effective. Push out every single lane until the enemy team can't leave their base, then take all the rax right under their face with Divine Rapier clones, possibly protected by Black King Bar. OSFrog.
The big difference between AW and Naga is that AW has super high tower damage.

What do you guys think of Riki? For the better or worse? The old one feels like a worse Slark tbh, though the silence is useful. Slark has better roam and better manfight. Now Riki is more versatile, being able to pick off or teamfight. What think, guys?

Oh well I failed to kill even bots with Arc Warden(finished with 1/2/5 when megas whacked their ancient) so maybe he is really a purely rat-doto hero(how do ppl, for example, even go 18/10/21 with him with the rat build?).

I wouldn't compare him to Lycan though, he needs items to really deal damage to towers. Also Lycan is changed to be more of a fighting hero with all those crits on summoned units(imagine Lycan with Necronomicon and wolves, and ALL of them have crits, that's just ridiculous amount of damage). While Arc Warden, from the experience I had(though I can be 100% wrong ofc, I suck with the hero right now), has gimmicky, if not abysmal presence in teamfights until he gets necros.

There's a lot of uncertainties for me about the hero right now, most important being:

1) The optimal build. I liked the rat->agi carry build of Midas into Necros into Butterfly, Eye of Skadi etc. - slowly pushing out rat items and stashing them so your clone can use them, while fighting your hero as an average AGI carry with double the networth. But I'm pretty sure it's not optimal.

2) Laning. Mid seems like an obvious place for him, but his laning is pretty ****. Sure, you are extremely hard to gank, but 1 vs 1 you are basically a rightclicking creep since you don't even have the mana for cheesy Spark Wraith spam. And Tempest Double isn't really that good until you get Hand of Midas, though you can still make a use of it by casting it, healing main Zet with Bottle from the copy and sending the copy spam Spark Wraith on the nearest camp.

Easy lane seems pretty good for him, Flux is a really good spell in a long lane, especially vs solo offlanes, and your killing potential with a support will be pretty high.

I'm not really sold on support Zet, his spells are gimmicky and he has no disables meaning you can TP out of half of hit ganks. Also his manapool sucks and Tempest Double isn't really useful on him - you can't even affect people twice with Mek.

3) Place in the current meta and in game in general. You can't play this hero as a 100% rat, you'll just get rolled over. You need to take fights at some point and I think you have to be a really good Zet player to be useful in teamfights with his usual build. Active actions also take quite some skill to execute well and IMO this will make a lot of difference between bad and decent Zet players, like I can, for example, Hex a target and then Hex it again with the clone, but it will be clumsy, I'll lose concentration and can cast a spell wrong in a frenzy since I'm not used to control multiple complex units aside from Brewmaster pandas. On the other side, pressing R, BoTs and shift-queue Midas, Necros and a defensive Spark Wraith is really a no-brain action and can be executed even by me.

Really not sure at all what will this hero become in this patch. Guess we jsut gotta wait and see how it goes.

Edit: wait, I just started watching the video and... is only wraith itself visible to enemies? Is the glowing AOE circle not?