HYPE!

Well no, that's the whole point, a PA without her crit is just not killing you in 3 hits. Even when 6-slotted :)

And poor supports have ways to deal with silence. Ghost Scepter is ultra cheap and keeps them alive until silence ends. Lotus Orb can be cast on teammates to dispel them so if I have one I'm casting it on my waifu CM. Essentially silence is extremely weak in this game.

I still hope BKB gets rid of the debuff. If it doesn't, the item is horribly OP.

What's the chance anyone without an innate silence will buy an Orchid or even target his natural silence for Crystal Maiden? Do you really not understand the difference between a pos5/4 support being taken out of the fight(not, since they can sill use items and support items are super-strong now) and you main carry lacking an ability that makes him carry in the first place? And silences can at least be countered with items. Break can't. If you are hit, you are useless(don't forget about -40% damage). GG.

Hamster is implying the same as me actually and my comparison was on point - I just used reductio ad absurdum to show that your logic about "It's not a disaster for the heroes that get countered by it exactly because you should be already expecting to deal with it when you pick the hero" is fallible.

I think someone made this argument to me when the mechanic was introduced;

It basically just turns Silver Edge into a loose form of stun on certain heroes. Which sucks yeah, but it's not so crazy. Like PA just has to use his Blink Strike to get to safety when it happens, Bristleback is still going to be semi tanky, and can spam quils, Spectre will still probably be semi tanky and such and such.

It's the definately the wrong direction to take the item in terms of balance, but still.

Well there you're right, sorry ahah so PA is bygones forever after this?

I think if people complain a lot the BKB change, at least, will happen. Because BKB is such a natural item on carrys that makes the trade between life/death or having it on cooldown/less duration for the possibility of turning on and fight back. I don't think it's necessary, but something like that seems fair.

But yes @Dimony, I understand the difference between a pos 5/4 support being taken out of the fight. "Lacking an ability that makes him carry in the first place" there, I don't agree again, because of the whole heroes-being-more-than-just-one-spell, and carrys not playing 1v5 (in some cases at least, since you appear to be fond of this heroic scenario). But yea we talked about that already. So now everytime someone picks a Spectre in your games, for instance, GG being called at minute 0. Nice, and not surprising :P

Btw, since you like philosophy/logic argumentation so much: you do know reductio ad absurdum is a very offensive argument that usually isn't used in serious discussions because it brings little to the table, right? If you want to say something like "the expect countering factor isn't the correct way of looking at it since you can't just pick the hero anyway because you can't fight the counter" just do it instead.


Edit, I thought of this now: You can't break spell immune units right? So if you want to break that important carry, you still have to sneak upon him and you can't actually use it in the middle of teamfights with BKBs running. That brings it more near the gank scenario I was thinking, since if you're teamfighting somewhere you're not supposed to be sneaked upon. If you're ganked, however, activating your BKB won't save you. I like this, for it seems like a ganking buff to me.

No I don't know reductio ad absurdum is a very offensive argument, probably because it's not.

Ok I'll do it a simpler way:

There is an item that is a major counter to your hero from midgame well up to ultra-late game -> It is not hard to get because of cheap parts and it benefits a lot of heroes -> You should truly expect to be facing that item when you pick a passive ability dependent heroes -> You can't do anything about it because there is no way to get rid of Break when you are already affected -> Being aware of it doesn't help you at all because the only preemptive action you can do to counter that is... not pick that hero in the first place.

Also yes Icefrog does pretty awful job at balancing the game compared to the amount of time he does that but he should rather phone some pro players, not me.

Also I wouldn't fire shots about stuff happening in "my games", and you should know why very well.

This is the point where we disagree (the rest of your logic makes sense ofc). That you automatically become useless because there's no way to get rid of break is where I say, you're not supposed to get rid of it in the first place, and if you're useless you have to survive those 5 seconds (is it 5 seconds? I'm not sure) and then comeback to the fight. But we can agree to disagree here, at least we're exchanging arguments about something that relies, ultimately, on our opinion, because there is no right or wrong here (or is there?).




Lemme guess: because it's offensive? As, for instance, firing shots about Dota knowledge of roles/technicalities? Oh, what a coincidence :P

If you fail to see how reductio ad absurdum, when used wrongly (because outside of the merit of the question), is offensive, there's nothing I can do about that, but at least now you know that is a possibility.

So being useless as a carry in a fight for 5 seconds is not game-breaking enough? Silver is basically the new Hex for most carries, even a much better version of Hex I'd say.



No, because the last user who did that was banned and demoted from an Editor to a regular user and it also looks silly when you address "my games" in some sort of "meh, inferior" manner, when in fact it's the complete opposite. :)

I still genuinely don't even have an idea of how reductio ad absurdum can be offensive by itself, and since I used it in the pure from, I think you might want to check the reasons it seemed offensive to you in the first place. Cheers.

C'mon guys, no point being salt, you should just unite, the real enemy is the big bad Frog.

But seriously some carries are just made by their passives. PA, Troll, Bristle, Spectre...without their passives they can do pretty much nothing. No damage steroid, no survivability, just a big punching bag. Kind of like a sheep. For 5 seconds (hex is 3.5).

Or like a (OS)frog.

Seems fine to me.

What is Blur?
Baby don't Manta Style me,
Don't Black King Bar me
No more .

And it's now available on the main client boys.

Let's get testing.