Thoughts on 6.85 Alchemist support?

If you choose to max AS over Greed in lane the Alch can still zone the SF long enough to get to level six where he can start handling razes. (3:30 Midas helps with levels too)

SF doesn't have to stand in spray though, and if Alch isn't getting close to him, he isn't forcing him out.

Like sure, Alch can probably break even with SF in terms of last hits with a really good start, it's just really unlikely and the match-up is in SF's favour. Even if the match-up isn't, the rest of the game is. Because practically all of SF's skill set hurts Alch a lot.

And you kinda don't buy Midas on Alch anymore. In any build.

Lmao I still buy Midas on Alch, works great for me.

And he DOES have to stand in it if he wants any Necromastery Stacks, if you place it right. If you place it so its just barely touching enemy creeps and as much of his side of mid as possible.

And what? Does he burn in fires of hell when he is in spray? He can calmly deny and lasthit all the creeps in the wave without even caring about spray.

You shouldn't underestimate spray. It actually does a lot of damage. Before reductions 240 / 320 / 400 / 480 damage if you take the full damage. Thats a lot of harass on a squishy hero. And with the duration and cooldown that only gives him a 6 second window to do anything without taking that damage. It builds up.

If he stands in it the entire duration sure. But that's unlikely, even with good positioning of the spray.

Like by the time Acid Spray hits the big damage values (So level 3 of it onwards), you can just burst down the wave and fall back to farm a jungle camp. Rinse and repeat.

So SF doesn't care that much, and actually trades harass better because of how little raze's cost, and be ranged instead of melee.

Another point to keep in mind is that harassment has in general very little relevance in the mid lane. You don't win mid by harassing your opponent, you win mid by beating him in CS and by controlling runes. If you control runes you don't care about harass because you can just bottle up. And SF has the better rune control in this matchup, by far. That's one of the reasons why Alch is just not that good of a mid hero, since the best mid heroes are the ones with instant waveclear.

But seriously, SF wins every 1v1 single mid matchup if the matchup is about passive farming. That's why he's first pick material in competitive...he's good against everything. There's only one way of beating SF mid and that's killing SF. The thing is, if Alchemist maxes Acid Spray, he has no stun or a ****py level one stun, and his kill potential is literally zero even if his supports come mid to set up kills.

If you don't kill SF, you lose mid to SF. It's really that simple. So the only thing Alch can do against a mid SF is to max his stun, call his supports to gank, and hope the SF is bad.

Told you already that it needs very strict mana management and huge reliance on runes.
The one making the false assumptiin would be you, thinking that you can get each rune and the fact that once you are down 500 gold since you went band, it would be easy to farm bottle before 2 minutes.

Hiw do you think you will sit in range and take creeps when you get harassed by spray damage?
The best sf does here is back up on jungle creeps as comeback.
And yes, i do believe that alch will beat sf on creep score..
And i dont see people going max greed in mid. Its 3-1-1. Sounds like you play too much of sf against ****py alchemists. Its time you learned alch

Rune control is defined as the ability to use AOE nukes to instantly push out the wave every time the timer hits an even number of minutes, so that you can maximize your CS, force the enemy to last hit under tower, and force him to choose between 1) missing out on a complete wave of farm and showing you exactly to which rune he's going because you have full vision of him with your creeps so you can beat him there anyways and 2) getting every single rune at the very second it spawns while still getting all the CS

SF has insane rune control. Alch has *zero*.

Alchemist's teammates will always be there to secure a bounty for him if the rune is warded. In cases SF comes to that location, they deny the rune.