Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

The Small things that no one tells you.

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » Theory Crafting » The Small things that no one tells you. 37 posts - page 3 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » August 6, 2015 6:04pm | Report
Personally i never get aghs on him. Usually stuff like euls/blink/force, and later refresher is just plain better.

Also 11 minutes aghs + all those other items isonly possible with about 5 kills.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » August 6, 2015 6:28pm | Report
Ag's on Zeus feels really bad. Like, I'd rather build something like a Eul's or a Bloodstone, since the regen lets you spam more, and your damage in a late game scenario comes from Static Field, not any of your spells in particular. Thus having the mana sustain to let you spam more, and thus farm more, is generally better than a fixed increase in damage.

If you are balling super hard I guess it's okay however.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

Sanvitch


Notable (18)
Posts: 1036
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » August 6, 2015 8:54pm | Report
its just a 'oh im ahead so damn much and the enemy is so squishy if i get aghs i get a press R rampage' item, nothing more, if you get a 20 min aghs its not worth it at all.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Seagull » August 6, 2015 10:04pm | Report
I personally like Bloodstone as it let's you spam your Q and W to proc your passive. It also kind of lets you use your ult to scout rather that relying on it for damage in fights.

Seagull

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Notable (9)
Posts: 285
Steam: HAEÆ
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Nubtrain » August 7, 2015 1:32am | Report
This post is mainly directed for Xyrus and Dimonychan's discussion about Zeus but should provide some insight in regards to understanding a hero

Zeus more often than not needs mobility and early game mana efficiency items than items like Aghs. Players need to learn mana management when playing any hero and Zeus is the perfect hero to practice it on. You absolutely need either a Blink Dagger, Force Staff or both. A bottle, soul ring and an optional Arcane Boots is more than enough for mana however the problem is getting there correct? That is where you prioritize which items to get first and the items you get first are the ones that have an overall better efficiency. Zeus also has a **** ton of burst damage with low cooldowns and that is very important to understand why Zeus doesn't need certain items like aghs so early or a super early soul ring before bottle.

It's important to understand Zeus' and his spells. If we were to compare each spells;

Arc Lightning has...
  • Lower Cooldown
  • Lower manacost
  • Lower burst damage
However it also has...
  • Higher Damage Per Second
  • Lower Manacost Efficiency

Reason why I highlighted the "Lower Manacost Efficiency" is because it's extremely important for the laning phase for Zeus. You must auto-attack whenever there is a chance not to waste mana to farm during the early game. You're bound to go OOM and that's when you start to lose your lane. That's why Zeus players try to maximize its efficiency by also hitting the enemy laner.

Let's take a look at Lightning Bolt, it has...
  • Higher burst damage
  • Higher Mana Cost
  • Higher cooldown
However it also has...
  • Lower Damage Per Second
  • Higher Manacost Efficiency

Lightning Bolt has "Higher Manacost Efficiency" and that means it's better to spam with. So when you want to harass the enemy laner it's better to consistently blast Lightning Bolt and farm with auto-attacks as much as you can.

If you can't farm with auto-attacks because of whoever you're up against then you should get a clarity or two with a 2-branch starting build. This is also why some players do go null talisman but a 2-branch build is better whether you're mid or offlane.

Getting a Bottle first is more important that rushing a Soul Ring first IMO, mainly because it lacks both hp and mana efficiency which Zeus heavily relies on. You're reliant on SR's active whereas with bottle you should be getting runes. You also take off 150hp each time so if you don't have sufficient regen then you're an easy target to take advantage off. Let's say you got Soul Ring at level 3 instead of a bottle. EACH time you use SR that's about quarter of your hp gone. Tango only restores 115 hp over a period of time. So you already see why it's a bad item to rush it immediately before a bottle; if you get it after a bottle then sure. Why? You have a bottle to maintain steady hp pools.

If you can't get runes then you have to be bottle crowing, mid has priority with courier until at least level 6 so your other lanes should be getting their important items through sideshop or whenever courier is back at base.

At this point if you have a Bottle and Soul Ring, you have a total of about 360 additional mana in one instance. That's a total of 828 mana at level 7 with full mana and no stat items. Let's say you decided to get an Arcane Boots that's an addition 250 mana + 115 with the active for a total of 1193 mana. At this point, this is MORE than enough to last you until during the later stages of mid game and those numbers are only at one instance.

At level 7, over a period of about 6 seconds you do 350 damage from a level 4 Lightning Bolt, 340 damage from a level 1 and 225 from Thundergod's Wrath. I left out Static Field since it varies depending on current health but just remember it's additional damage. Zeus does 915 magic damage before magic reduction for each spell use at the cost of 620 mana without including the damage from Static Field. So that means at level 7, you have an additional 573 if you got Bottle + SR > AB and 208 if you didn't get AB.

So based on this result, Bottle + SR + AB is MORE than enough to fulfill Zeus' role as the team's burst nuker especially since this is not including rune bottling. At this point, The only weakness Zeus has is his survivability and the best way Zeus can survive AND dish out his damage is to have either Blink Dagger or Force Staff or both.

Nubtrain
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (58)
Posts: 1078
Steam: Nubtrain
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » August 7, 2015 5:32am | Report
Soul Ring comp. Belongs on a Broodmother only.

BTW: On nearly every mid hero and support, I will go for Boots of Speed Tango Clarity. If Im the one buying courier and wards than Healing Salve Clarityx2 Tango Iron Branch x2
Mood of the Day


^_^

Blubbles


Notable (13)
Posts: 933
Steam: Axolotl
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » August 7, 2015 12:05pm | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

Personally i never get aghs on him. Usually stuff like euls/blink/force, and later refresher is just plain better.

Same, it's just that much better for Positioning in fights. Although I prefer Octarine to Refresher. 25% more Arc Lightning, Lightning Bolt and Static Field is just ridiculous once BKBs are down.

About Aghs though, it is a great 1st item if you're Snowballing out of control, but it also works well in some situations as a 2nd or 3rd Item if you are against a team of squishies, or have a Global Burst Combo, e.g. Haunt + God's Wrath + Overgrowth.

Xyrus
<Moderator>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Established (104)
Posts: 2429
Steam: Xyrus
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by masaaki14 » August 7, 2015 3:45pm | Report
But otherwise, its better to get something else. Personally, i feel that blooodstone is better than aghs on zeus snowballing. A force staff or euls for defensive if you aren't doing well also works

masaaki14


Notable (11)
Posts: 724
Steam: masaaki14
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » August 7, 2015 4:59pm | Report
Small thing that no one told me until recently: that you could kill Warlock damn minions with a Diffusal Blade. I never thought of the Golems as a summoned unit, cause I'm dumb. Now I know why he isn't op.

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

ChiChi
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (47)
Posts: 1559
Steam: Chi-Chi
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » August 7, 2015 5:02pm | Report
You can kill couriers with Sonic Wave.
There are two kinds of people in the world; those who can count, and those who can't.

Meme central please give me ad revenue

Terathiel
<Veteran>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Remarkable (49)
Posts: 1415
Steam: Save me from this meme hell
View My Blog

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved