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you really need to include a magic wand in a wraith king build. that burst of mana right before you die could be the difference between getting to use your ult, and dying like a moron
Nice guide, however Shadow Blade / Silver Edge is missing. I find this[e] item[ s] to be much more versatile and more value-for-gold for a carry WK than Blink Dagger, which is very monodimensional.
I also disagree on Radiance: IMHO for WK it is not as much for split pushing as for early team fighting and pushing. It also solves the Achilles' heel of WK: kiteability. Now you kite them instead of the other way around (if you get it early)! Get early Radiance => punch towers with team => force them to take damage and waste time taking you down (so your team mates can finish them off) or they lose their T1 towers.
I find it an excellent rush-item for a safelane WK if the game is passive in the early game and you are getting freefarm.
Hey Tikru8,
thanks for the response in the first place.
I kind of disagree, atleast when it comes to Shadow Blade. In my eyes Shadow Blade is at least as monodimensional as Blink Dagger, but blink atleast ensures a melee range initiation, while Shadow Blade does not. The Silver Edge is kind of another thing. This is a totally situational item just for the sake of the Break and is only viable when you are up against Phantom Assassin or something similar in late game. Additionaly Shadow Blade is even more expensive. This makes you come online for fighting even later, plus if they have proper detection, you pretty much spent almost 3000 gold for no real benefit. I kind of dislike Shadow Blade over all, but it's not cost efficient at all on Wraith King imo. Before purchasing Silver Edge, I would most likely go for something like Assault Cuirass which in fact is less expensive or Mjollnir, which is really buffing up your fighting.
When it comes to Radiance you are right, it primarily is a teamfighting item. It works really great with Wraith King, though I do not see it fixing it the kiting issue per se. If you rush Radiance, which takes some time when not snowballing, you have Radiance, but this is all you are for now. Opting for an early Blink Dagger and something like Skull Basher/ Maelstrom/ Armlet of Mordiggian for the same price as Radiance provides a way better fix for gap closing imo and renders you somewhat more dangerous dps wise. But going for Radiance early is generally a viable choice imo depending on your teams composition.
Rush riadiance if you get ahead for sure. Don't let that Riki escape with a sliver of hp. Also miss chance and you can get some pretty hilarious kills for free sometimes. I always try to rush it but if not, I go with my fall back build which is armlet, blink, malestrom. All carries know the struggle. No stat boosts until sacred relic. This also applies to alchemist and spectre.
Nice guide, however Shadow Blade / Silver Edge is missing. I find this[e] item[ s] to be much more versatile and more value-for-gold for a carry WK than Blink Dagger, which is very monodimensional.
I also disagree on Radiance: IMHO for WK it is not as much for split pushing as for early team fighting and pushing. It also solves the Achilles' heel of WK: kiteability. Now you kite them instead of the other way around (if you get it early)! Get early Radiance => punch towers with team => force them to take damage and waste time taking you down (so your team mates can finish them off) or they lose their T1 towers.
I find it an excellent rush-item for a safelane WK if the game is passive in the early game and you are getting freefarm.
Hey, Gandalf, sorry for the way too late response.
Well, the tendency in later 6.84 and now in 6.85 is back to Wraith King safe lane carry or at least core WK. The support Wraith King never gets completely useless, but only works well in certain line ups and needs comparably more items than average support, especially if you want to transistion into late game dps from supporting.
I think Aghanim's Scepter is a great new input, which only fits a support Wraith King. I would find it interesting to see how the competetive scene is going to treat WK, but I expect him to be not picked often, and then as carry.
You can track WK competitive picks at datdota. You will notice his below average winrate and that he is picked as 1st pos carry, often next to a caster 2nd pos nuker like Lina
Man, now that I've seen your other guides too, way to go! +1 on the three of them, plus I guess I will finally start to play Dazzle following your awesome explanations for him.
Continue the good work, do more!
Thanks a lot, ChiChi! I'm really happy to see that you not only like my guides, but actually are motivated by them to pick the heroes and test my suggestions in the field. Dazzle is still my favorite support and once you get into his playstyle, you are most likely to have more impact than "usual" supports, so you do not need a hard stun at all! Have fun with the Shadow Priest!
Thanks for +1ing the guides, man. I'll keep things coming as soon as I can and I got something special to put out. Have a nice day! E1
Man, now that I've seen your other guides too, way to go! +1 on the three of them, plus I guess I will finally start to play Dazzle following your awesome explanations for him.
So one thing I think you might want to mention is saving a skill point at level 6, rather than auto-skilling your ulti.
Level One Reincarnation has such an irritatingly long cooldown that you don't want it to really trigger. If you are in a situation where say you are being ganked by 3-4 heroes without any allies in range to support you, and level 1 Reincarnation is up... well you are going to be killed twice, and suddenly have a 260 second period without your second life.
Something you see in competitive play (Or at least some), is that people save a point at 6 and only level Reincarnation when you are going to get an advantage from that level 1 ulti (So it lets you team jump in and get a good fight because of the slow, or because you come back up), or you hit level 11 when the cooldown is less painful.
Oh and I think Blademail is a goodish second item on support WK. Since, you ideally want to force people to focus on you when you jump in and trigger, so it lets you bounce that damage back at them. And you basically say - Either take damage and be slowed and have a bad team-fight, or lose the guy I jumped on as you run away.
Good morning, Sanvitch.
On the Reincarnation at 6 topic:
I do not "auto-skill" the ult, it is more of a decision I made. You are totally right about some pro players saving the level 6 point in order to jump straight to the way shorter cooldown at level 11. I do not know, if this is really common or exotic (The most games I've seen Reincarnation got skilled on 6), but the reasoning is correct. You proceed like this, if you really get no big advantage of using Reincarnation and are about to get to level 11 in 260 seconds. But overall I decided to suggest skilling Reincarnation at 6 as the rule, because it is such a good ability since you can keep on farming, if you manage to survive after resurrecting.
I will include this option of saving a point for Reincarnation until level 11 as an alternative in the skill sequence justification as this might really be useful to know as an option. But in general I will suggest getting it at 6 as is comes to the skill sequences, because otherwise some more new players might be irritated by the reasoning.
On the Blade Mail support item topic:
If you really decide to support as Wraith King (which you usually only do for the first 10 levels or so), I do not think Blade Mail is the best choice. As Dimonychan already commented, having Blade Mail makes enemies try to focus other (squishy) targets over you, what you probably do not like to since you want to provide the Reincarantion slow in major teamfights. Your reasoning is correct, but I find it more fitting for a tank: As a tank you are more of a threat than a support and want to keep tanking in front row as long as possible. Blade Mail allows you to be active and deal dps while its active is on, which is not your primary job as a real support.
But after all I think this is a point where it comes to preference and the teams set up is an important factor. So there might be no rule to be found right or wrong in the end. I hope you got my reasoning.
I'm a huge fan of your guides and the first thing I noticed is the description of Wraithfire blast "Undying saps the life from enemy Heroes in an area, dealing damage and stealing Strength for the duration." just a little bit of typo.
Well,I'm wondering if Heaven's halberd can be an item on him (though I don't know where that can be placed if on the TANK part or on the CARRY part), grants evasion against physical attacks and a DISARM for that maniac hitting void, crit addict PA or an AM without a manta (well since manta dispels the disarm) or if their team consists of right click heroes. you can stun them and then after stun,disarm them,also it grants STR gain and a slow :)
well just a suggestion E1 ;) hope this helps ;) and nice guid again :) the explanation is good, as expected from you :)
Hey border, mate!
Before everything else, I'm very glad you like my guide and their explanantion, it means a lot to me, that you respect the work I submitted here recently :). Also thanks for your feedback and criticism!
I will correct the Wraithfire Blast description "typo" right now. This is the result of copypasterino the basic codes for the skill sheets from my previous guides. I find these chapter boxes writen in code really hard to check for such mistakes; thanks a lot for helping me with this one!
I actually included the Heaven's Halberd as a late game item for the Tank Build. It can be an item on all of the builds, I guess, but I've put it into the tank build because it suits Wraith King best, when he is set to go into the middle of teamfights. This is because the evasion and the maim -- as you rightfully explained -- are great mechanisms to go straight front row in fights. Also the damage and strength provided make it a good allround package. This might be the way to go, if you face too high dps and suffer to be bursted in an instant.
Thanks again for the comment and have a nice day, man! E1
Oh and I think Blademail is a goodish second item on support WK. Since, you ideally want to force people to focus on you when you jump in and trigger, so it lets you bounce that damage back at them. And you basically say - Either take damage and be slowed and have a bad team-fight, or lose the guy I jumped on as you run away.
Blade Mail does completely the opposite of making enemies focus you. It's great on carry Wk, but is a poor choice for a support(but then again, why would you want to play WK as a supp in the first place).
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Nice guide, however Shadow Blade / Silver Edge is missing. I find this[e] item[ s] to be much more versatile and more value-for-gold for a carry WK than Blink Dagger, which is very monodimensional.
I also disagree on Radiance: IMHO for WK it is not as much for split pushing as for early team fighting and pushing. It also solves the Achilles' heel of WK: kiteability. Now you kite them instead of the other way around (if you get it early)! Get early Radiance => punch towers with team => force them to take damage and waste time taking you down (so your team mates can finish them off) or they lose their T1 towers.
I find it an excellent rush-item for a safelane WK if the game is passive in the early game and you are getting freefarm.
Hey Tikru8,
thanks for the response in the first place.
I kind of disagree, atleast when it comes to Shadow Blade. In my eyes Shadow Blade is at least as monodimensional as Blink Dagger, but blink atleast ensures a melee range initiation, while Shadow Blade does not. The Silver Edge is kind of another thing. This is a totally situational item just for the sake of the Break and is only viable when you are up against Phantom Assassin or something similar in late game. Additionaly Shadow Blade is even more expensive. This makes you come online for fighting even later, plus if they have proper detection, you pretty much spent almost 3000 gold for no real benefit. I kind of dislike Shadow Blade over all, but it's not cost efficient at all on Wraith King imo. Before purchasing Silver Edge, I would most likely go for something like Assault Cuirass which in fact is less expensive or Mjollnir, which is really buffing up your fighting.
When it comes to Radiance you are right, it primarily is a teamfighting item. It works really great with Wraith King, though I do not see it fixing it the kiting issue per se. If you rush Radiance, which takes some time when not snowballing, you have Radiance, but this is all you are for now. Opting for an early Blink Dagger and something like Skull Basher/ Maelstrom/ Armlet of Mordiggian for the same price as Radiance provides a way better fix for gap closing imo and renders you somewhat more dangerous dps wise. But going for Radiance early is generally a viable choice imo depending on your teams composition.
Have a good day, sir. E1
This has to be the most in-depth and well edited guide I have seen here. Thumbs UP UP AND AWAY!
Thanks man, I really appreciate this!
Have a nice day, E1
I also disagree on Radiance: IMHO for WK it is not as much for split pushing as for early team fighting and pushing. It also solves the Achilles' heel of WK: kiteability. Now you kite them instead of the other way around (if you get it early)! Get early Radiance => punch towers with team => force them to take damage and waste time taking you down (so your team mates can finish them off) or they lose their T1 towers.
I find it an excellent rush-item for a safelane WK if the game is passive in the early game and you are getting freefarm.
Hey man is the wk support still viable in 6.84?
Hey, Gandalf, sorry for the way too late response.
Well, the tendency in later 6.84 and now in 6.85 is back to Wraith King safe lane carry or at least core WK. The support Wraith King never gets completely useless, but only works well in certain line ups and needs comparably more items than average support, especially if you want to transistion into late game dps from supporting.
I think Aghanim's Scepter is a great new input, which only fits a support Wraith King. I would find it interesting to see how the competetive scene is going to treat WK, but I expect him to be not picked often, and then as carry.
You can track WK competitive picks at datdota. You will notice his below average winrate and that he is picked as 1st pos carry, often next to a caster 2nd pos nuker like Lina
Greetings, E1Mariachi
Man, now that I've seen your other guides too, way to go! +1 on the three of them, plus I guess I will finally start to play Dazzle following your awesome explanations for him.
Continue the good work, do more!
Thanks a lot, ChiChi! I'm really happy to see that you not only like my guides, but actually are motivated by them to pick the heroes and test my suggestions in the field. Dazzle is still my favorite support and once you get into his playstyle, you are most likely to have more impact than "usual" supports, so you do not need a hard stun at all! Have fun with the Shadow Priest!
Thanks for +1ing the guides, man. I'll keep things coming as soon as I can and I got something special to put out. Have a nice day! E1
Continue the good work, do more!
So one thing I think you might want to mention is saving a skill point at level 6, rather than auto-skilling your ulti.
Level One Reincarnation has such an irritatingly long cooldown that you don't want it to really trigger. If you are in a situation where say you are being ganked by 3-4 heroes without any allies in range to support you, and level 1 Reincarnation is up... well you are going to be killed twice, and suddenly have a 260 second period without your second life.
Something you see in competitive play (Or at least some), is that people save a point at 6 and only level Reincarnation when you are going to get an advantage from that level 1 ulti (So it lets you team jump in and get a good fight because of the slow, or because you come back up), or you hit level 11 when the cooldown is less painful.
Oh and I think Blademail is a goodish second item on support WK. Since, you ideally want to force people to focus on you when you jump in and trigger, so it lets you bounce that damage back at them. And you basically say - Either take damage and be slowed and have a bad team-fight, or lose the guy I jumped on as you run away.
Good morning, Sanvitch.
On the Reincarnation at 6 topic:
I do not "auto-skill" the ult, it is more of a decision I made. You are totally right about some pro players saving the level 6 point in order to jump straight to the way shorter cooldown at level 11. I do not know, if this is really common or exotic (The most games I've seen Reincarnation got skilled on 6), but the reasoning is correct. You proceed like this, if you really get no big advantage of using Reincarnation and are about to get to level 11 in 260 seconds. But overall I decided to suggest skilling Reincarnation at 6 as the rule, because it is such a good ability since you can keep on farming, if you manage to survive after resurrecting.
I will include this option of saving a point for Reincarnation until level 11 as an alternative in the skill sequence justification as this might really be useful to know as an option. But in general I will suggest getting it at 6 as is comes to the skill sequences, because otherwise some more new players might be irritated by the reasoning.
On the Blade Mail support item topic:
If you really decide to support as Wraith King (which you usually only do for the first 10 levels or so), I do not think Blade Mail is the best choice. As Dimonychan already commented, having Blade Mail makes enemies try to focus other (squishy) targets over you, what you probably do not like to since you want to provide the Reincarantion slow in major teamfights. Your reasoning is correct, but I find it more fitting for a tank: As a tank you are more of a threat than a support and want to keep tanking in front row as long as possible. Blade Mail allows you to be active and deal dps while its active is on, which is not your primary job as a real support.
But after all I think this is a point where it comes to preference and the teams set up is an important factor. So there might be no rule to be found right or wrong in the end. I hope you got my reasoning.
Have a good day, Sir! E1
I'm a huge fan of your guides and the first thing I noticed is the description of Wraithfire blast "Undying saps the life from enemy Heroes in an area, dealing damage and stealing Strength for the duration." just a little bit of typo.
Well,I'm wondering if Heaven's halberd can be an item on him (though I don't know where that can be placed if on the TANK part or on the CARRY part), grants evasion against physical attacks and a DISARM for that maniac hitting void, crit addict PA or an AM without a manta (well since manta dispels the disarm) or if their team consists of right click heroes. you can stun them and then after stun,disarm them,also it grants STR gain and a slow :)
well just a suggestion E1 ;) hope this helps ;) and nice guid again :) the explanation is good, as expected from you :)
Hey border, mate!
Before everything else, I'm very glad you like my guide and their explanantion, it means a lot to me, that you respect the work I submitted here recently :). Also thanks for your feedback and criticism!
I will correct the Wraithfire Blast description "typo" right now. This is the result of copypasterino the basic codes for the skill sheets from my previous guides. I find these chapter boxes writen in code really hard to check for such mistakes; thanks a lot for helping me with this one!
I actually included the Heaven's Halberd as a late game item for the Tank Build. It can be an item on all of the builds, I guess, but I've put it into the tank build because it suits Wraith King best, when he is set to go into the middle of teamfights. This is because the evasion and the maim -- as you rightfully explained -- are great mechanisms to go straight front row in fights. Also the damage and strength provided make it a good allround package. This might be the way to go, if you face too high dps and suffer to be bursted in an instant.
Thanks again for the comment and have a nice day, man! E1
Oh and I think Blademail is a goodish second item on support WK. Since, you ideally want to force people to focus on you when you jump in and trigger, so it lets you bounce that damage back at them. And you basically say - Either take damage and be slowed and have a bad team-fight, or lose the guy I jumped on as you run away.
Blade Mail does completely the opposite of making enemies focus you. It's great on carry Wk, but is a poor choice for a support(but then again, why would you want to play WK as a supp in the first place).