Daedalus question.

Hi,

I registered on dotafire to ask this, since I did not find the answer anywhere.
I have a question about the before mentioned item. I don't know how critical works with
heroes with "steroids" like Nethertoxin, Magina's mana burm and especially Spectre's Desolate.
I think that it does not multiply the bonus damage, am I right? Still a lot of people buy it on not so low level pubs (600+ wins). I think that it isnt really the most cost effective item on those heroes. And yes Spectre has illusions that benefit from it, but I still think that it sucks on her, and that she would benefit more form Skadi, Heart (not mentioning Manta, Diffusal and Radiance since those are basically her core items) and other items that increase her stats, IAS, or hp. Is that correct?

To sum up, does it multiply the bonus damage from "steroids" and is it good item on Spectre?

I'm not 100% sure, but the abilities you've mentioned are all usually dealt as a separate damage "instance", and so aren't part of the heroes' main damage (base damage + damage items + primary stat (including item boosts)). This means they don't count as part of the crit, if it triggers.

The main issue with Daedalus is that you need to have sufficient damage and attack speed to make it worthwhile. The damage increases the overall effect, while attack speed makes the crits more consistent and the number of them you might make.

It's rarely a bad item choice on any well farmed carry, but is often a poor choice if you don't have much else.

To give you a (slightly dodgy) example:

If your damage was 100, with a 25% chance of a 2.4x crit, your damage over 4 hits is likely to be 540. If you got an item instead which added 100 damage, your damage over 4 hits would be 800. On the other hand, if you had 500 damage, your likely output over 4 hits would be 2700. If you added another 100 damage, your damage output would be 2400.

Also, things like crit chances work on "pseudo-random" number generation, so if you're getting a lot of crits, you're less likely to get more soon after - if you're not critting, the chances of you getting one increases. This smoothes out the overall damage output.

No, it doesn't multiply bonus damage from 'steroids' and it's not good on Spectre at all.

I think the unique attack modifiers like Searing Arrows crit though, not sure.

Thanks a lot guys. Yes sando thats exactly what i thought it is.
Ive just seen some of my rl friends rush it and buy it on spec so i wasnt so sure anymore.

And yep, i need some other opinions to prove them that they are wrong :)

Spectre is a damage sponge, you win by getting damaged a lot.She/He/It doesn't deal that much damage with auto-attacks.

Yes wulfstan i was trying to explain that to them. Now i have this thread to show them.

Although she can do some good dmg with haunt + radiance, and manta on solo target.

Exactly, together with medusa she is one of two heroes who can take an extreme amount of punishment.
But a diffusal radiance spectre with manta or haunt illusions can still shredd supports or a lone opponent. (im looking at you nature's prophet)

I agree completely.

Illusions don't really benefit that much from crits, their damage come from Desolate and that's the only reason they can actually dish out some decent damage. Unless you count Diffusal's mana burn and Radiance's damage.

Furthermore, base and bonus damage are accounted for potential critical damage, hence its effectiveness on Sven.

Nethertoxin, Mana Break and Desolate are bonus damage but are dealt separately from your base damage and bonus damage given from items and auras, therefore it is not factored in for the crit damage.

A rule of thumb here is that if the bonus damage given shows up on your hero's present damage on-screen beside your base damage, it is factored in for the crit.

If it does not show up on your HUD, it is not.

in general heroes that rely on their "illusion" skills to do damage deadalus is a poor itemchoice, since illusions olny profit frome base-damage (meaning all the damage they get via their main-ATTRIBUTE). The +81 bonus damage from deadalus would be completely lost on Pls illusions for instance. Afaik illusions cant even "crit" - even though crit numbers and animations are occurring the dps doesnt increase!

Radiance somehow deserves special mention though: As said - the illusions dont profit from the bonus damage from this item, but the radiance burn is functioning the very same making it a very powerfull tool (especially) on spectre to initiate teamfights with haunt. Not only can you make sure to damage EVERY opponent with your radiance but also disable PKs on important initiators such as enigma and sandking.

But, as every1 else also said, you usually want to go for heavy stat-items on illusion-based heroes; namely Manta, Diffusal, HoT and Skadi.