Farming in competitive is easier?

Ok, I think this question deserve this newbie section of the forum :D

When I play with a carry in safelane I usually am against 2 guys or at least an offlaner (usually 2 guys).
They keep harassing me and I cannot last hit, sometime they even won the lane and I must play safer than the suicide laner.
Once I was vs Sniper/gyrocopter and I had no farm at all. I was the support and tried to harassed them to assure Void the farm, we tried and we died, it was a very disaster.

So I was curious and watched some pro gameplay, and now I ask you.
Why always in competitive scene.. carry have always free farm? Supports in the jungle doing things.
I've seen the enemies leave the offlane tower free to be destroyed with no problem. I've seen another replay (yesterday I think) where a Wraith King free farmed for centuries (and won the game).

They take so many last hit, because no-one contest them.

Someone can illuminate me how competitive games work?

its not that carries have free farm, its the supports and the second/third core's job to "create space" for the carry to farm up.

creating space can be defined as:

To create space is to create opportunities for your team to farm up and get levels by making the enemy team waste time and resources on trying to deal with the things you do.

supports ward, die to protect the carry, don't take last hits from the carry, help struggling lanes,etc,etc.

basically, they play with a level of co-operation and soundness of general gameplay that we just do not see in pub games.

you need to play with 4 other people you know to get a little glimpse of what a well co-ordinated team can do.

let me show you a game of mine i played: http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/923641715

i play the venomancer.The feed is hard.

the lion is a new guy who doesnt know much about DotA and we quickly realise that lions potential is being wasted, so i switch with Lion at about minute 30 to use him after i have completed my aghanim's.

After that, its carnage.the game begins to turn. with Death Prophet's silence + hex and mine stun + hex, we slowly start to take down their heroes and the enemy Wraith King takes preventive measures against me and DP by making orchid and stuff.

Rest is history.We kill like 4 of them in a teamfight near our ancient and proceed to end the game :D

That's the HUGE difference betweed dual lanes and trilanes.

In 2 v 2 lanes, nobody can farm. It's all about perpetual harassment and going for kills.

While in competitive, you extremely rarely see dual lanes - it can happen but it's very rare. Competitive dota is mainly about trilanes and *solo* offlaners. In a 3 v 1 lane you can freefarm the lane. So yes carries get tons of farm in competitive, while if you have dual lanes in pubs you simply can't.

The only case where a carry can't freefarm a lane is in the case of a 3 v 3 lane (aggressive trilane).

On the other hand supports get tons of farm in *pubs* while they can't get any farm in competitive. Some builds like Blink Dagger/ Black King Bar/ Aghanim's Scepter on Crystal Maiden are pretty standard in pubs while they aren't viable at all in competitive because it's way too expensive. There are 60-minute games in competitive where the crystal maiden at the end only has a forcestaff and a ghost scepter. In a pub the CM will typically be 6-slotted with blink, bkb, aghs, shivas, sheep and stuff - I even remember a CM game where I had a freaking Refresher Orb xD

TLDR, if you want to freefarm with your carry, do a trilane in the safe lane with 2 supports. You will just destroy the enemy dual lane and get all the farm and kills you want.

There are a ton of differences between a high tier game and a low tier game. Yes, in competitive games sometimes the carry is left completely alone to free farm. Here are the reasons why:

1. First of all, the supports are EXTREMELY active in high tier games. They are never in the same lane for more than a minute or so. They are rarely seen on the map, so that all lanes are threatened. You have to take careful note of EVERYTHING in the lane, even creep equilibrium.

Let's say that you're farming the short lane, and the creeps are at the opponents tower. You have 3 melee and a ranged, they have two melee and a ranged. This means that the creep equilibrium is going to push into your tower in 2-3 waves. The more it pushes, the off laners either forfeit experience by tower hugging (Out of fear of dying), or push into the lane to get experience but risk dying.

People recognize stuff like that in high tier and know approximately where people will be at what times during the game. They position appropriately based on those predictions.

Another big thing is that levels are more valuable than items early game (Generally speaking, since most items won't come online for a while). So let's say the gyro and sniper lane are farming, and you're Luna (Just basing off of your avatar. You could be any carry honestly). Every odd level (1, 3, 5, and 7) you get much stronger than your dual lane opponents (6 is obviously a huge difference as well for ult). This means that if you're level 5 versus two level 4's, and you get a rotation from a level 3 support, you will be able to burst one hero down almost immediately with beam.

Let's say the supports don't rotate and you can't get any farm for a while (I actually just played a game like this with a Void that was complaining). As long as the other heroes are making things happen in other lanes, you're winning the game. Even if it doesn't feel like it since you're not farming, there are 4 other players on your team and they're winning for you. A lot of carry players think "I have to keep farming. I have to keep my gold up!" sometimes the game doesn't work out that way. You just sit back and let the mid push for gold, or the supports pick on a weak hero (Like Terrorblade) early game.

Here's a picture from that Void game. My friend and I have been experimenting with roaming Jugg/Skywrath and had a lot of success. This is a pretty high tier ranked game. Notice the kills and my assists. My friend and I made ALL of the kills happen. It was a dual lane top with viper. Viper had to start rotating out of lane to try to stop his allies from feeding. This created space for Void by forcing rotations from all of the heroes.

Hopefully that clears it up a bit. Good luck!

Not necessarily, anyone who played in the first game of the DOTAFire in-house shuld be able to tell you that both Team's Solo Offlaners won their lanes 1 vs 3. I won by not Feeding and constantly baiting the Supports to try and Kill me to no avail. Timminator won by not Feeding and instead getting Fed. X{D

Tri-Lanes are a lot more complicated than low skill Dual Lanes. In Dual Lanes, you only have 3 jobs: Stacking and Pulling, Harrassing, and Denying. In Tri-Lanes, you also have to: avoid leeching Exp from your Carry, Roam and Gank Mid AND the Offlane (usually with Smoke of Deceit), Roam/TP in to stop Ganks on your Cores (possibly turning it around), never let the other Team know where you are (until it's too late), and find your own Exp and Gold (Killsteal ftw!).

Going back to the in-house example, there were very few rotations on either side, everyone knew where the Supports were almost all the time and because they wre constanly hovering around the Safe Lane, both Offlaners easily Outleveled the Safe Laners and Hades was left unchecked to oh-so-predictably dominate Peppo. 8{3

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You might be asking, "What's the benefit of leaving the Safe Laner all alone if he can't necessarily get Farm?"

First of all, if he's a weak Laner (usually a Spectre), then either he Picked last and thought he'd have an easy Lane, he's your teammate and you all agreed that Picking Spectre would be a good idea for your Lineup, or 90% of the time, he just made a dumb Pick because YOLO.

You'll find in Competetive that the Safe Laners aren't that weak and can generally hold their own and get Farm against strong Offlaners, maybe sometimes they need the Offlaner to die once or twice so they have a small level advantage, but these Picks are made considering how the Hero is going to get Farm. This never happens in Pubs unless you're in a 5-stack.

If you can leave a Safe Laner in the Lane by himself, he gets 100% of the Exp from each Creep Wave, as opposed to 50% from having to share it with a Support.

If you can Roam and get Kills, Jungle, or both, you can get your own Farm without depriving any of the Core, in fact, if you Roam an Gank, you're probably increasing their Farm while providing your own.

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So basically, there is a more Farm available to 3 Solo Laners and 2 Roamers/1 Roamer + a Jungler, than there is to 2 Dual Lanes and a Solo Mid.

But Xyrus, a solo laner does a million times better against a trilane than a dual lane!

If a solo laner just doesn't feed, gets XP, and grabs some last hits from afar with a nuke, he wins the lane.

But how can a dual lane ever win the lane against a trilane? They can't get kills, they can't get farm, they can essentially only get zoned out. I mean, there's a reason why there are no "aggressive dual lanes" in competitive ^^

ofcourse there are centain agressive duallanes that can deal with trilanes, especially against heroes with less lane presence like spectre, shaman and rubick.

undying, abbadon, jakiro, naga, axe, lich, dazzle, earthshaker, weaver, huskar, skywrath, treant, windranger can all prevent the enemy carry from freefarming in certain duallanes.

Well that's pretty much the only solution for an aggressive dual lane, yeah : to be very, very annoying. Like Lich + Skywrath Mage or something. Zero kill potential, but lots of annoyance factor. But then you can just push their 2 towers down xD

Or Windranger + Huskar...But then pulling kind of counters this hard.

Sure if you lane 2 annoying offlaners together you get twice the annoyance factor, but it only works against bad trilanes with low kill potential I think. Harassing is useless against a lane that is there to kill you in the first place.

Competitive: Safelane costs a lot of resources to gank (usually smoke and ~45 seconds of both supports' time), while it costs little to defend (TP to safelane tower). Dual/tri offlane generally isn't viable as it leaves your mid/safe very exposed. Carry will always be able to catch up if the other lanes win.

Pub: Nobody has heard of TP scroll to countergank, so the safelane isn't actually any safer than the offlane - in fact, it's probably more dangerous. Dual/tri offlane is plenty viable because nobody will take advantage of the other lanes being exposed. Carry losing lane/falling behind usually means carry stays behind - supports won't stack jungle, mid/offlane won't create space.

Ofcourse it needs to be worth it, and it is done in pro games much more in post TI3 versions.

For instance cloud 9 ran a really nice stragegy with duallanes. Their safelane was drow visage, which could zone out the enemy offlaner really well and had high kill potential.

Meanwhile the only thing their dual offlane had to do was stay alive and make sure the enemy carry got less farm then drow.
That basicly meant that they had a mid, carry, and an offlaner who all got farm.