Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

Why are supports so good these days?

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Forum » General Discussion » Why are supports so good these days? 14 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by kkoopman3 » September 13, 2014 7:37am | Report


This game is a perfect example. Me and the Lion I was laning with both got kills in the 20s, although his was not as high as my 10.00 KDA seen above. Why are supports so good at carrying these days? Do they need a nerf or do people just not care to counter them because they're supports?

kkoopman3


Remarkable (28)
Posts: 815
Steam: Ce.W1sd0m
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 13, 2014 7:46am | Report
You probably got in a higher matchmaking pool. Since support is the hardest role to play getting better players makes a big difference.
No more useless supports standing in lane doing nothing but sapping XP, thinking that their role is denying.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by kkoopman3 » September 13, 2014 8:59am | Report
In a similar game I just went 13-4-11 with CM. So now I have a 22-4-18 and that. Why do we even call them supports?

kkoopman3


Remarkable (28)
Posts: 815
Steam: Ce.W1sd0m
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Zerosaviour » September 13, 2014 9:37am | Report
kkoopman3 wrote:

In a similar game I just went 13-4-11 with CM. So now I have a 22-4-18 and that. Why do we even call them supports?


Actually, most of the blame lies firmly on the cores. Or more specifically the people who always play cores. They get used to bad supports or games where there is only one support and 4 core.

So they decide to pass up critical items that protect them from magical damage. (aka BKB n Linkens)

While the people who play support most of the time will slowly get better and better; till eventually they end up doing more work than cores.

My SK and Enigma have both given cores nightmares as I wreck they six ways from Sunday.

Heck, I remember one game when I played CM where I had heart and bkb. Their strongest core was an Ember Spirit; who couldn't even kill me.

It really comes down to two things basically; the people who play supports are actually getting better while the ones playing core are not.

That is why I always tell people to learn support; cause that is the best way to learn the game.

Zerosaviour


Notable (8)
Posts: 467
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » September 13, 2014 9:46am | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

You probably got in a higher matchmaking pool. Since support is the hardest role to play getting better players makes a big difference.
No more useless supports standing in lane doing nothing but sapping XP, thinking that their role is denying.

Agreed, good Support players look for opportunities to make things happen, almost always trying to get First Blood within the 1st minute of the game. If you get First Blood at minute 1 as a Support, that's your Magic Stick + Town Portal Scroll right there. Know what that means? you can go Roaming for another Kill! 8{D soon you have a fast Magic Wand and Boots of Speed, you have good Ward Coverage, and your Cores are leading in Exp and Gold and you'll probably have taken a Tower or 2 with ease. Your biggest concern becomes:-

"Hmm... Urn of Shadows or Blink Dagger? X{D"

Xyrus
<Moderator>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Established (104)
Posts: 2429
Steam: Xyrus
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 13, 2014 3:10pm | Report
kkoopman3 wrote:

In a similar game I just went 13-4-11 with CM. So now I have a 22-4-18 and that. Why do we even call them supports?

That is where you are thinking wrong for a second. Being support doesnt mean bad scores or anything.
They are boss without items instead of boss with items, that is exactly what makes a support, and some are even both.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by kkoopman3 » September 13, 2014 3:54pm | Report
Again... Why do we call them supports if they end up carrying the team?

kkoopman3


Remarkable (28)
Posts: 815
Steam: Ce.W1sd0m
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » September 13, 2014 4:47pm | Report
kkoopman3 wrote:

Again... Why do we call them supports if they end up carrying the team?

Because you started out as a hero that is not getting farm who then started finding kills across the map because you were better then them, so you punished their anusses, didnt die in fights, go a ****ton of gold, probably stopped getting wards because who needs that **** and then stomped them.

Dota has flexible roles, you can run almost all supports in the mid and snowball with them. But you are not going to give a crystal maiden safelane farm and rock the enemies world with the items you have farmed. You rely completely on snowballing to do the damage.

Timminatorr
<Editor>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (57)
Posts: 2376
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » September 13, 2014 5:01pm | Report
kkoopman3 wrote:

Again... Why do we call them supports if they end up carrying the team?


I mean, it's probably better to break things down as Support and Core, rather than Support and Carry.

Supports are Hero's that don't get initial farm priority in a game, not because they don't carry games, because some support plays in games can be good enough to carry the game. You can just be that impactful in game that to all intents and purposes you were the teams carry even if you were in a support position.

Thus why seeming dedicated supports can be viewed as cores in some matches, and you can play some more traditional core heroes as supports. And why some supports if they are having a good game do transition into core position roles and have a less successful core play a supporting role instead.

It's basically just all relevant to the specific situations.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

Sanvitch


Notable (18)
Posts: 1036
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » September 13, 2014 7:10pm | Report
Dota is one of the most resource based Moba games, especially since you take people's gold when you murder them. Items are more powerful than heroes a lot of the time. Cores like Medusa scale better, but in the end, a Lion with a Dagger, Aghs, and Scythe is still very dangerous late game.

Supports are also one of the most underestimated groups of heroes, and the main reason they are so successful at carrying games is not that they're especially powerful with items, but rather that they have items and their enemies do not (Again, Dota is a resource race)

Supports that kill easily (Most of them, except like Warlock and [Keeper of the Light]]) can snowball like any other hero. People also tend to play in a more inferior manner in the early game, I think it's called "Complacent Gamer Syndrome".

A major psychology of Dota is that the game gets more intense and many people take a while to focus properly because with respawn times and streaks, the game's stakes rise with time. However, most people cannot focus from beginning to end for ~40 minutes at a time, so they tend to be much more vulnerable in early game to big plays.

Thus, pubstompers are either extremely strong laners ( Viper, Necrophos) who snowball off early success, Powerful aggresive early heroes ( Centaur Warrunner , Abaddon), or heroes that have a weakness to early game aggression that is rarely exploited ( Omniknight, Riki). (Also heroes who have autowin teamfight skills like Lich and Warlock, but that's beside the point).

I hope this helped.

Cuttleboss
<Editor>


Remarkable (28)
Posts: 689

Quick Reply

Please log in or sign up to post!

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved