The Hardest carry?

There will be **** flying here I understand that (it's a debate forum ffs) but please keep it to a minimum!

ANYWAYS. There is always a disussion between:
Faceless Void
Medusa
Spectre
Antimage
etc. etc.
ON WHO IS THE HARDEST CARRY IN DOTA? Let's find out c: What do you guys think?
I personally vote Spectre due to absurd 1v1 potential and insane 5v5 potential but enough about me let's turn the camera to the COMMUNITY!

Eh, this kind of thread comes up every once in a while

Dusa

Medusa-Insane potential.Stronger than Spectre 1v1 as well as 1v5 as she will just melt the illusions away and you cant tank Divine Rapier hits with your (relatively)puny EHP.Also can reach 20K EHP ez.

Faceless Void-1 V 1 god.you don't mess with him cuz he will melt through you man.Also decent teamfight with his bkb-piercing ultimate and the natural battlefury pick.

Spectre-you will almost always kill her.but you will kill your team as well.'nuff said.

anti mage-Will carry if none of the above are in the game.

Phantom Lancer-Will carry if none of the above (except anti-mage) are in the game.Can outcarry Faceless Void if he is stupid.Same with [[spectre].

Phantom Assassin-lol.

Sven-When in ulti, run away.

Tiny- Spectre can't do ****. Faceless Void can't do **** without Black King Bar. Medusa might be able to do something. Countered by Black King Bar so hard.

People realize taht dota is a 5 man game. Theres no harder carry or hardest carry for that matter.
I once carried with a tide hunter against a n00b team.
All it depends on is the draft ALONG with the carry.

I f your are talking about 1v1 situation, go see youtube the russians do those 1v1 manfight scenarios. Turns out, juggernaut is harder than faceless void.
Although i urge people to not to put fuel to this fire as this discussion is useless in my opinion. A good ember spirit might kill all of them. a better earth spirit will not let the carry come to that stage of 6slotted situation.

TAke DoTA as a 5 man game people, and you will find that these questions do not arise, for they are a mirage when you come and get to know the desert(doto), they do not exist.

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You can add a poll in these things so we can see the stats of votes. I think you can still add a poll using edit.

Another one, okay.

All of the mentioned ones are pretty high up there, but all these heroes have weaknesses, and Dota is a 5v5 game that can be played in many ways. There's almost no case that your hard carry will be able to survive getting picked off 1v5 while buyback is on cooldown. Like Void can be stopped with a hero with a long ranged BKB piercing stun, Medusa is wrecked by Anti-Mage and Aghs Outworld Devourer, and Spectre's damage can be stopped with mass BKBs and a Necrophos Scythe will often take care of her, since she often needs to buyback.


I wrote a resource that may help you, a series of calculations of sustained damage potentials on my Dragon Knight Guide (not updated for 6.83, so WR and Troll have lower and a few other things too): http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/cuttleboss-guide-to-training-the-best-pseudo-hard-carry-10736#chapter11


A few other very hard carries left out of discussion so far:
Ember Spirit: Deadly splitpushing hero that has high AOE damage potential with battlefuries and divines. Can be extremely difficult to kill.
Chaos Knight: Insane Potential. Has hardest hitting illusions that can level structures (slightly nerfed in new patch), and are also very hard to kill. Works against limited number of teams and very snowball dependent.
Tiny: Not that good at direct combat without good supports due to low armor and agi gainhowever, power lies in ability to take towers faster than almost all other heroes, except the guy right below.
Terrorblade: Single target damage is highest in the game thanks to Meta Illusions and that agility growth, and Sunder makes him very tanky late in the right hands. Hopefully he won't get nerfed more.
Wraith King: Passives scary horribly well, probably better than any other hero, even Faceless Void. Weakened however by stat growth and how it is fairly easy to kite him.

Heroes that should be kept off:
Meepo: Can be everywhere with Travels, and his aghs gives him real high damage potential, but he has no means to correct his extreme weakness to being focused down, so he will rarely carry hard as he can.
Lone Druid: 12 item slots sound like insane potential. However, his Spirit Bear not having a stat growth, and a lack of scaling steroids means that LD 12 slotted will get outcarried by most of the above heroes 6 slotted.
Dragon Knight: No direct steroid, can do a ton of damage late game with his splash if he has setup, but Sven and Tiny can do much more. Also, his armor scales poorly because by levels 20+, agility heroes will naturally have about as much armor as DK gets from his Blood.
Kunkka: Probably the least dependable source of AOE damage you can get, since you have to crit to really scare people. Can be quite slippery though.
Phantom Assassin: Oddly countered by both of the King Bars, since she can't phantom strike you if you're magic immune, and her natural evasion is lost. Burst damage is high and may kill a hero with a good crit, but sustained damage is quite low. (See calculations)
Ursa: His abilities seem to scale well, however, he's extremely single target focused and loses his DPs when he moves onto another target. Also, probably easiest hero in the game to kite.


Well, I hope this helped contribute to the discussion.

Copy-pasted from an earlier post. 1 to 17 of the Hard Carries.

1. Faceless Void. He has a permabash ability which deals magical damage (ie not reduced by armour), 25% damage dodge which gets progressively more annoying as the game goes on, mobility in Time Walk and a full five seconds of beating faces with no repurcussions.
2. Medusa. Absolute potato and quite possibly my least favourite Hero but god help you if you're against a fat Medusa. AoE monster with Split Shot, possibly the second-highest EHP in the game. Downside is, she's really slow. And really boring. Like, really boring.
3. Spectre. Highest EHP in the game by far (it's about 12000 when 6-slotted), and 22% of that will be dealt to you. If she has 4000HP, you deal 4k damage to her, 800 is reflected, and Spectre's STILL alive. Then she pops Satanic and you have no idea what to do. Desolate and Haunt also deal tons of damage. Three scaling abilities makes Spectre easily on par with Void and Medusa.
4. Terrorblade. The illusion Heroes are generally close together, and while Terrorblade's 120% damage increase from Conjure Image isn't as much as the 160% of Juxtapose the Demon Marauder's base damage is much higher. Also got three scaling abilities which make him progressively harder to deal with the longer you let him farm.
5. Morphling. His carry potential comes not so much from the shotgun as from his powerful, consistent right-clicks, his Manta Style illusions, and from the fact that if you focus him he'll morph Strength and you will have a really hard time killing him.
6. Chaos Knight. 300% crit AND a potential 400% extra damage in illusions? Yep. The downside is he's a Strength Hero who is limited by the fact that he isn't Agility.
7. Phantom Lancer. Every ability has something will illusions. As you may have guessed, illusions are pretty much guaranteed to make you a hard carry.
8. Tiny. He's technically an illusion Hero with his massive base damage and his building of Manta Style, but his damage on his own is also massive. Craggy Exterior makes him extremely difficult to take down and gives him durability even beyond his natural HP.
9. Gyrocopter. Similar to Medusa, but he deals slightly more damage. However, it's only for 6 hits and he's really squishy, which limits his hard carry-ness.
10. Lone Druid. Contrary to popular belief, after 60 minutes the Druid actually falls off, mainly due to the fact that his bear's HP doesn't increase. At the hyper-lategame where the likes of Void and Spectre thrive, the bear dies very quickly, even with a BKB. Before then, though, the Druid will slaughter with impunity.
11. Luna. Moon Glaives tears apart teams and while that is her only scaling ability the fact that Manta Illusions get the passive makes her somewhat an illusion Hero, despite that she doesn't build stats. Also makes a cool noise when you attack something.
12. Naga Siren. She's the weakest fighter of the illusion Heroes, due to many nerfs to Mirror Image. The problem with her is that everything she does Terrorblade can also do, with the exception of her ult. Still powerful lategame though, but won't stand up to as much.
13. Alchemist. He's an awkward Hero, because he only has one combat-orientated carry ability (even Weaver has two-and-a-half). However, his insane attack speed and regen allows him to melt pretty much everything he sees... if he can get the attacks off.
14. Tinker. I reserve a personal hatred for playing against Tinkers and it's a sure way to assure a Doom pick. Permahex is as dumb as it sounds.
15. Anti-Mage. Second only to Medusa for the Hero I find most boring to play. He hard carries by farming incredibly fast and being 6-slotted 20-30 minutes before even Terrorblade. The downside to this is that he has a 15-20 minute window where you NEED to win before he gets outcarried, as Mana Break doesn't scale very well into the ultra lategame and neither do his Manta illusions.
16. Phantom Assassin. Despite the fact that her damage steroid crit only offers a mere 50% increase to damage on average, she scales well into the lategame with massive physical burst and an absolute inability to be kited like Lifestealer. She excels at 1v1ing carries and lone supports, but won't carry a team as hard as someone like Gyro or Luna can.

^Ah, i remember that list from the past. Perfect.

If we're talking strictly about a single hero, I'd say of all the carries, the hardest are Medusa, Naga Siren, Faceless Void and Spectre. The strengths of these four are in my opinion:

Medusa: Deals massive damage to whole teams, and unless you have manaburn, it's impossible to kill her in the late-game, and even then it's hard as she has Stone Gaze. The best heroes against her are Nyx Assassin and outworld devourer (once he gets aghs) as they have instant manaburn. Nyx does especially well because the Mana Burn is so spammable.

Naga Siren: Not so much of a fighter, but is absurdly good at stalling the game, split-pushing the enemy to death, and starving everyone else while getting ridiculously fat herself. In a way she is the most reliable of these carries as she doesn't require huge risks to be taken, and she's not as cooldown dependent (as Song of the Siren has only 60 seconds cd on lvl 3). Basically takes over the map, restricting the map control of the enemy by spreading her illusion on all lanes and farming the whole map at the same time. Also has the invaluable I-reset-the-fight-so-I-can-continue-it-if-I-want-to-or-I-can-just-sneak-away-if-things-get-rough -button.

Faceless Void: Has the best early-mid-game of these these heroes, as he can lock the enemy team down while letting the rest of the team nuke them down. Late-game he deals massive damage himself but is restricted by being melee, so he can't deal damage reliably without Chronosphere as he really gets kited hard. Still, going against him in the late-game is extremely dangerous because of the fear factor from Chronosphere as a single teamfight can decide the game.

Spectre: Excels at killing the enemy supports with Haunt before the fight even begins. She is incredibly tanky, and also deals damage to the enemy team while they try to kill her. At the same time she deals a lot of damage so the enemy can't just focus her down. Radiance+ Haunt also stops any blink-initiation so fighting into her is really hard. Kind of falls off when the enemy gets to the point that she can't just ult-kill their supports, but is extremely strong in the late-game regardless.

strongest team fighting carries would be Ember spirit, Spectre, Gyrocopter and Medusa.
1v1 pa needs some luck on her side, Juggernaut can just ult and murder the other person and void bashes the hell out of people in chrono and then there's phantom lancer and troll warlord.