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Items and Heroes

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Forum » General Discussion » Items and Heroes 21 posts - page 2 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » July 2, 2014 6:53am | Report
Zerosaviour wrote:

Best gem carriers are tankier heroes. Usually offlaners cause their usually strength heroes.

Nope, the best Gem of True Sight carriers are Illusion Heros, since teh Illusions gain Truesight as well, allowing them to fearlessly scout wherever they please and over a much wider area, since they have multiple units providing vision and True Sight. Tanky/Elusive Heroes are good, but not as good and Illusion Heroes usually end up Tanky Late Game anyway.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » July 2, 2014 6:54am | Report
Zerosaviour wrote:

Actually find getting a gem and or dust to be more cost effective. You need to farm to necro 3 for invis detection.

Best gem carriers are tankier heroes. Usually offlaners cause their usually strength heroes.


Personally I generally prefer Sentry Wards, they're more reliable and multi-purpose. The thing with Gem is that they're so damned risky - I hate losing items to the opposition (1600+ gold transfer right there, nearly 12k for a Divine Rapier). Yes, obviously you have to plump for a Gem if it's needed urgently and you don't have the funds yet.

The great thing with Necro 3 (on any vaguely suitable hero) is that you get plenty of anti-invis coverage (e.g. dewarding, ganking etc) for "free" (i.e. no ongoing costs), and that the opposition can never permanently remove your ability to use it. I think it's generally the best long term solution to invis heroes, especially if you don't have an "almost impossible to kill" hero on your team.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Crazy Tom » July 2, 2014 10:01am | Report
Zerosaviour wrote:

You know; I usually go boots first on melee heroes. But I usually play tanky offlaners anyways.


I suppose it's a matter of preference. I just like the Stout Shield for the extra durability, and I'll usually rush boots right after it. Occasionally though I'll build it into a Poor Man's Shield, depending on the game (if I'm playing a melee agi hero like Slark or Anti-Mage and/or if I'm up against a LOT of right-click harass).

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by bballer23 » July 2, 2014 10:24am | Report
Yeah the gem thing is another one. I'm at a skill level where teamwork is nearly non existent and invis heroes dominate scene. So often when I play a support I buy sentries/dust but often it is not enough(i/e Riki, By the time I know he is there he is backstabbing my squishy support to death). But I also don't know when to get the gem, no one else on the team wants to buy one, and a support is too squishy to carry it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DB-Owls » July 2, 2014 12:40pm | Report
I generally avoid gems. Dust and sentries are so cheap and don't pose the risk of giving them over to the enemy team.

And really, you could probably design a build using any assortment of items on any hero. What makes certain items more useful/common/practical is synergy with the hero's skills and optimal usage of your 6 item slots.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fumbles16x » July 2, 2014 1:22pm | Report
The responses here have most of everything covered. Every hero, except for some 5 position supports, has 1 or 2 items that they pretty much always need, and the rest depend on the match. A Luna is pretty much always going to need to pick a BKB up, and a Kunkka will nearly always buy a Shadow Blade at some point. However, sometimes your hero and the basic guide they come with can't deal with the other team's full arsenal.

The biggest part about picking your items is about countering your opponent. It's a lot like chess, in that you have to be thinking ahead of them so you can get your item before theirs shuts you down. For example, if you see their Drow Ranger with an Eaglesong in her inventory, she's more than likely putting a Butterfly together. At that point, if you're the carry or at least deal good physical damage, you should start making a Monkey King Bar. Keeping an eye on what your opponents have in stock is a great way to have a heads up of what their late game builds will be, because most players don't buy lategame items outright due to the expense.

Items are generally bought to cover your weaknesses and boost your strengths. Know what these are for each hero, and item choices will become easier. Agility heroes usually want more agility and damage. Strength usually want strength, armor, regen and usually damage. Intelligence usually want intelligence, mana regen, and a range of utility items. That being said, there are always exceptions. But that just comes with playing the game; you figure out by playing as and against different heroes, and that's also what makes the game so fun.

Using the guides is perfectly fine. They have most of what you need 90% of the time. Just be wary of what they consider "core", especially in the Valve guides. They get a little lenient with that word and have players pick up completely situational items in every match.

So yeah, tl;dr:
-Cover your weaknesses as a player and as a team
-Never have one guide for every match
-Keep an eye on enemy items and try to build a counter before them
-Learn what heroes roles are and try to get items that let them do the role better


Weighing in on the invis debate, it depends a lot on the match. Dust is good for heroes like Riki and Bounty Hunter who like to pop in, deal damage, then go invis again. Sentries, of course, are good for areas where clashes happen a lot, or at key points on the map. Gem is really situational because of the risk involved. The gold is a lot to just be turned over to the other team, especially if your support buys it. Late game it's much more viable, if you have someone who can reliably carry it without dying like Axe or something. Necronomicon, though pricey at its full level, is the most reliable, ESPECIALLY if you're a pusher. I played a game as Nature's Prophet the other day and was pushing just fine until their ganker built a Shadow Blade. After two big pushes got stopped dead by invis ganks, I had to stop what I was doing and make a necrobook asap because I wasn't sturdy enough for a gem.

Necrobook also gives the same aoe style detection as a sentry, so you don't have to rely on popping the dust at the right time or putting the sentry in the right place, you can just move the warrior around.

It's honestly best to have a little of everything. Your support should have sentries for dewarding anyway, and dust is a really good, cheap way to counter invisibility (especially because of the slow). If your pusher has a necrobook, even better. You really should never have a problem with invis.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by JO3MWHIT3 » July 25, 2014 12:57pm | Report
What heroes would be really effective against Phantom Lancer? Thankyou
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ashwinthegrim » July 25, 2014 1:46pm | Report
JO3MWHIT3 wrote:

What heroes would be really effective against Phantom Lancer? Thankyou


Sven - Great Cleave </illusions>
Magnus on the team - Empower your carry </illusions>
Shadow Demon support - Did you say illusions? Here, let me Disrupt you, and we'll have an illusion war on our hands
Gyrocopter - Flak Cannon says hello!
Luna - Moon Glaive the illusions all day!
Battle Fury on a farmed carry
Medusa - Split Shot your way to victory
Earthshaker - Loves to eat Phantom Lancer armies for breakfast


Or you know, shut Phantom Lancer down early game and finish the game before he can hit his peak.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by JO3MWHIT3 » July 25, 2014 1:48pm | Report
Thanks ash
JOEMWHITE :>
-PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO CHECK OUT MY GUIDES
-PHANTOM LANCER
-MUCH LANCE, LITTLE PHANTOM
-IM JOE IF YOU DIDNT ALREADY KNOW
-IM A POET AND I DIDNT KNOW IT! :O

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Krwiozerca » July 25, 2014 2:01pm | Report
JO3MWHIT3 wrote:

What heroes would be really effective against Phantom Lancer? Thankyou


I personally think that Kunkka is the most effective pick against him.

He cleaves Phantom Lancer's illusions like noone else. It goes like this: you see that PL is pushing a lane. You come in, attack with Tidebringer and see if there is one Phantom Lancer that has much more HP. Then you immediately use detection (most preferred Dust of Appearance), use X Marks the Spot on the correct Phantom Lancer, set the Torrent and maybe even Ghost Ship.

I know that he can purge Dust off, but even then Kunkka can use Tidebringer on the illusion to finish him. He is like a straight counter to that hero in my opinion.

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