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A couple item build questions.

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Forum » General Discussion » A couple item build questions. 15 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Gnomjolnir » February 12, 2014 9:43am | Report
Question #1

Is it viable to build a Null Talisman on Sand King instead of a Bracer as a first early item (after Magic Wand if necessary)?
I usually play him as hard support, however the build I go for ( Arcane Boots -> Blink Dagger -> Veil of Dischord) is pretty expensive and the talisman would make the veil come online quicker.
Is that +3 STR more important than the +3 INT?

Question #2

This is my usual Kunkka build: Bracer -> Phase Boots -> Crystalys -> Drum of Endurance -> Daedalus -> other items.

During the Early-Mid game I would like to have some extra health regeneration.
I would really love to get a Ring of Health but I don't think it builds into anything really useful for him.
I tought about the following solutions but I still haven't tested them:
-A casual Hood of Defiance if the enemy happens to have heavy casters.
-Completing Drums before Crystalys
-Power Threads instead of Phase
- Mekansm, but I don't think he has enough mana to use it effectively

Any suggestion on which item should I get and when?

Question #3 (not a build question but kinda related)

How do you land Ghost Ship?
Seriously.

Gnomjolnir


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Manofchalk » February 12, 2014 10:06am | Report
1. This is largely preference, figure out whether on the whole you end up needing more mana than health as you play.

2. I usually build as Kunkka: Phase Boots -> Bracer -> Shadow Blade -> Crystalys -> Drums of Edurance -> Daedalus -> Heart of Tarrasque
It does have the downside of a lack of any substantial health regen until you get to the Heart. Going for a Reaver immediately after the Crystalys would give you a decent boost in HP, regen and outright damage.

3. Throw a Torrent, if by about halfway through the animation they haven't moved, throw your boat. If they didnt move immediately, chances are good they dont know there is a Torrent under them, and that will stun/slow them until Ghost Ship lands.
Try to throw it at range as well, the Ghost Ship will always travel a fixed difference (the Diameter of the cast range, from the edge behind you to crash at the front edge). If you drop the marker within your cast range, it will move beyond that point. If Kunkka has to move forward to throw the boat, its going to land on that spot.
Its also pretty damn obvious when its coming, so try to throw from behind trees or within the fog unless there has been some kind of setup.
"Windranger" is not how you spell Windrunner.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » February 12, 2014 12:44pm | Report
Personally i am a really big fan of the 'skipp the ********' build and go instantly for blink, shadowblade or whatever core item im going for. I allways skip bracer on mid heroes like batrider and kunnka, simply becouse i want to get blink/shadow blade as soon as possible to make a big inpact. But that is my preference.
Consider getting an urn of shadows instead of a bracer if noone has one, it does so much more then bracer.

You could get a null on sand king, but as my most played hero i would say that you dont need it before blink if you go magic wand, which you pretty much always should. Unless you go urn and buy a lot of wards sentries and dust. But most of the time im the support who gets a lot of smokes and dust when needed, even just for a solo gank.


On your how do you land ghost ship question.
Dont max torrent and get 3 points into X Marks the Spot.
If you gank a lot and want to go for solo kills, which you most of the time should due to the fast paced nature of pubs. Get 1 or maybe 2 points into torrent.

2 points in x marks lets you land torrents.

3 points lets you land ghost ships.

4 points lets you **** on that Sniper or Drow Ranger picker who thinks they are good heroes from an unholy long range.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » February 12, 2014 1:06pm | Report
Timminatorr wrote:

Personally i am a really big fan of the 'skipp the ********' build and go instantly for blink, shadowblade or whatever core item im going for. I allways skip bracer on mid heroes like batrider and kunnka, simply becouse i want to get blink/shadow blade as soon as possible to make a big inpact. But that is my preference.
Consider getting an urn of shadows instead of a bracer if noone has one, it does so much more then bracer.

You could get a null on sand king, but as my most played hero i would say that you dont need it before blink if you go magic wand, which you pretty much always should. Unless you go urn and buy a lot of wards sentries and dust. But most of the time im the support who gets a lot of smokes and dust when needed, even just for a solo gank.

This ^ you only really need a Bracer to survive if you're dying a lot, but an Urn of Shadows is great on a Support if you expect to get some Kills/Assists. Null Talisman doesn't really do much for you imo, 78 Mana is nice, but not worth the cost.


As for the HP Regen, I recommend Armlet of Mordiggian, maybe not the most ideal Item for Kunkka, but Toggling it on and off will help you survive Ganks, and a quick Toggle can also be used to get some extra Damage into your Tidebringer. Not that there's anything wrong with a Casual Ring of Health.
Quoted:

On your how do you land ghost ship question.
Dont max torrent and get 3 points into X Marks the Spot.
If you gank a lot and want to go for solo kills, which you most of the time should due to the fast paced nature of pubs. Get 1 or maybe 2 points into torrent.

2 points in x marks lets you land torrents.

3 points lets you land ghost ships.

4 points lets you **** on that Sniper or Drow Ranger picker who thinks they are good heroes from an unholy long range.

Pretty much this, but I'd only level 2 points, and just do the full, X Marks the Spot -> Torrent -> Ghost Ship combo. Although Tim is probably a far better Kunkka player than I. X{D

Also, remember that Ghost Ship provides a Buff to you and your Allies, so sometimes, hitting your entire Team is good enough.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » February 12, 2014 1:32pm | Report
Xyrus wrote:

Pretty much this, but I'd only level 2 points, and just do the full, X Marks the Spot -> Torrent -> Ghost Ship combo. Although Tim is probably a far better Kunkka player than I. X{D

Also, remember that Ghost Ship provides a Buff to you and your Allies, so sometimes, hitting your entire Team is good enough.

i like the X marks range at lvl 3, since lvl 2 only has 650 range which is still pretty close to most ranged heroes max range.
800 is a lot more comfortable. it also makes sure you land your ult without torrent since ghost ship takes 3.07 to land.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » February 12, 2014 1:32pm | Report
1. I don't think neither the Bracer nor the Null Talisman are needed: SK is a STR Hero, so the extra HP from the Bracer is negligible for him; a Null Talisman is redundant as you might be getting something else instead of the Veil later on. Just go Arcanes + Stick/Wand + Dagger in my opinion.

2. First, I'd rather get a quick Drum of Endurance than an early Crystalys since the former helps a lot in the early game both for chasing and sustaining your abilities (extra mana always helps). I also pick up a Shadow Blade before the Crystalys (after the Drums) if I'm doing well, since the extra damage gets ampified by the Tidebringer. For the HP regen, go mid and get a Bottle; otherwise you can get a Vanguard if free farming instead of the Drums (though your mana may suffer from it). I also bought a Mekansm on him once or twice, it does work with a Bottle. :D

3.
Quoted:

On your how do you land ghost ship question.
Dont max torrent and get 3 points into X Marks the Spot.
If you gank a lot and want to go for solo kills, which you most of the time should due to the fast paced nature of pubs. Get 1 or maybe 2 points into torrent.

2 points in x marks lets you land torrents.

3 points lets you land ghost ships.

4 points lets you **** on that Sniper or Drow Ranger picker who thinks they are good heroes from an unholy long range.

This.
Either level 2 X Marks the Spot + Torrent + Ghost Ship
or level 3 X Marks the Spot + Ghost Ship + Torrent.
They both always work.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PeachFuzz » February 12, 2014 4:50pm | Report
Unless I'm playing Sand King in a tri-lane, I don't do the often seen pro build of mana boots + blink.

Instead it's almost always better in pubs to get wand + boots + bottle if you are mid or in a dual lane. Then you go roam and control the runes for your team. Active play = big big rewards in pub games. The Wand+Bottle combined with smart Sandstorms gives you a lot of room for outplaying the enemy team in fights. I skip mana boots and go straight for blink.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by sulaxrox » February 12, 2014 6:22pm | Report
I never need to go heart to survive with Kunkka. Shadow Blade has a really long cool down, you're better off going for Phase Boots-drums of endurance. The stats from drums are necessary, and the earlier you get them, the better. Go for lothars If you're farming as well as you should be with Kunkka. Before 20 min you can very well have phase-drums-shadowblade unless you're going for a battlefury build than phase-bfury-drums-bkb-daedelus-daedelus-swap drums for heart, without drums you'll be at about 2300hp
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Gnomjolnir » February 14, 2014 9:50am | Report
Thank you all for the feedback and the advices.
I tried your suggestions and it worked out pretty well.

Especially regarding kunkka's skills, X Marks the Spot is really useful and I didn't miss a torrent thanks to that (except the 1500 range torrent to help a chased teammate. That never lands.)

It has its downsides though:
-torrent stays at level one until I have two levels on X Marks the spot.
I don't think this is so bad because torrent scales on damage and slow, the full duration of the stun is still there and I think it's not worth it if I'm not able to land it.

-since it has become more reliable I now use torrent more often and this leads to mana problems
Should I get a Bottle even if not mid? Magic Wand and Drums alone are now not enough in my opinion

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » February 14, 2014 11:57am | Report
You don't have to get 2 levels of X at that early level.You can just max torrent and tidebringer (with boat accordingly) then just max the X.This way, you'll actually learn to manage early without the X.

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