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Am i Wrong? Tourneys and drafting

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Am i Wrong? Tourneys and drafting 10 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Apir03 » August 10, 2014 7:52am | Report
The other day, my team and I went for a 5v5 tourney and we lost in the first match :DD. It was single elimination so we went back home straight gg . i was the drafter so i want to ask you guys opinion if my strategy was wrong. After pick and bans, i drafted for my team :

Radiant
1.Death Prophet
2.Shadow Shaman
3.Skywrath Mage
4.Bristleback
5.Slark

Against ***** Gaming (Typical chinese tryhard pro teams from SG) where they drafted:

Dire
1.Lycan
2.Wraith King
3.Razor
4.Clockwerk
5.Disruptor.

I predicted correctly that they will do a trilane top with Lycan, Wraith King and Disruptor. Razor will go mid and clockwerk will solo offlane bot. My pick itself was purposefully for early game dominance and my main plan would be dropping their tower one by one after Dp and SS reach 6 while giving their Lycan a hard time farming. So what i told my team to do was an agressive trilane at top with Skywrath Mage, Shadow Shaman and Bristleback. Death Prophet mid lane and Slark solo safelane against Clockwerk. However we still lost because Shadow Shaman keeps getting picked off with Glimpse giving them 1st blood at lvl 1 and 1 more kill, while our mid lane lost to Razor and by then our plan all fall apart.Only Slark was winning his lane.By then we cant stop their Lycan from farming anymore because of the level advantage.

After the game, we were discussing a bit and my team told me we should have done a safelane trilane bot with me bristleback as the top solo but if i do just that, Lycan would have farm and he will be creating problems for our stick and push strat because he can take down towers by himself really fast. I wanted to know if my decision was wrong and where would that be. Lets not involve other heroes and better picks into the discussion because i just wanted to know if my draft should have worked or not with players of equivalent skill.

Apir03



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » August 10, 2014 8:08am | Report
Your picks were fine, no major flaws, sometimes the games just turn against you. I think the Bristleback trilane was a bit of an issue because he's quite level dependent and you were pretty reliant on the SS for stuns. You may well have been better off with the Slark top and the BB bottom.

Playing in tournaments is difficult as you simply don't know the respective skill level of your opponents - they may be a way ahead of you on MMR and it's tough to play against that. The other thing is that competitive 5v5 trilanes are a different beast to pubs, the positional play in things like 3v3 lanes is critical. But hey, you only get better by doing it.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » August 10, 2014 8:11am | Report
Could you also post the bans? I am interested in this one, I need the entire story to point out any possible flaws.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » August 10, 2014 8:39am | Report
Well first off shaman is not a very good agressive trilane hero since he needs levels an is kind of greedy, bristleback is decent but not the best.

What i dont like about your draft is that you both pick slark and bristle, they both lean more towards the carry side and less to the lockdown and teamfight side.
Just death prophet doesnt give enough teamfight to walk up to their towers and take it. Something like tidehunter instead of slark would be better. Just the threat of ravage makes teams afraid to defend.

The thing about lycan is that even if you pressure him hard in the early game he will still farm the jungle really fast and be a pain in the ***. You can only stop him doing that with really hard push with heroes like pugna or maybe a lane with axe and dazzle.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Apir03 » August 10, 2014 9:00am | Report
Wulfstan wrote:

Could you also post the bans? I am interested in this one, I need the entire story to point out any possible flaws.


thank you for all your responses.I also am kinda new to this,especially my teammates. yea it seems like my team lack teamfighting skills and ss should have been put up in lanes where he should pull or get fast exp somehow for that fast lvl 6. Unfortunately i dont remeber the bans for the enemy team and the replay is unavailable. we even remake after the draft because of technical problems and go ap with the remake so replay nt gonna help. im just gonna state the hero i rmmbered

My bans:

1.Tinker(their best hero)
2.Invoker(their best hero)
3.Warlock
4.Batrider
5.Rubick

Enemy bans:

1.Doom (this ban i think was because they want to run tinker)
2.Pandaren
3.Tidehunter
4.Viper
5.???? i cant remember sry

They first ban and first pick. we get double pick and so on..

Apir03



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » August 10, 2014 9:15am | Report
So I haven't posted in months, but this is interesting. Personally, i think Bristleback does much better solo than in a trilane, especially since I think that they had a much better trilane than you with an easy stun(WK) and Disruptor( Glimpse OP). I also think that a bristle and a slark, I just don't think they compliment each other, sorry I cant quite put my finger on it. I don't think Slark would have been effective even if this game had gone better for you because their heroes are for the most part too tanky for him to gank easily.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » August 10, 2014 9:37am | Report
R-Conqueror wrote:

So I haven't posted in months, but this is interesting. Personally, i think Bristleback does much better solo than in a trilane, especially since I think that they had a much better trilane than you with an easy stun(WK) and Disruptor( Glimpse OP). I also think that a bristle and a slark, I just don't think they compliment each other, sorry I cant quite put my finger on it. I don't think Slark would have been effective even if this game had gone better for you because their heroes are for the most part too tanky for him to gank easily.

They are the same kind of heroes, that is the main problem.
Also razor keeps sapping damage through Shadow Dance.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Apir03 » August 10, 2014 9:48am | Report
The Razor get boots first item so he can steal lotsa dmge from dp in laning phase if dp's positioning was bad and paired with a dd rune, he got a solo kill early. i really think we coulda win if not for the pickoffs. we were 0-2 then 2-6 and yeah pretty much gg by then because we dont have any comback mechanism and the heroes arent good for teamfight

Apir03



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » August 10, 2014 10:28am | Report
I would have drafted Queen of Pain against Razor, the Blink and Shadow Strike make for good counters against Razor, and give good lane control.

Also, would have picked Undying instead of the shaman, to put in that agressive trilane. The plague aura, goo, quills and tombstone work wonders toghether. Decay is such a good skill to have against STR heroes early on too.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by jawbreaker261 » August 10, 2014 5:54pm | Report
I don't really see any problem with the picks per se, but the style isn't what I would have gone for. Have SS and Sky as a roaming duo rather than dedicated to a single lane and I think the outcome is very different.

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