collaborative match with Bunkansee

I dont agree with fighting them, without manta and diffusal your damage isnt that impressive yet.

The main thing to practice is your micro, you should have about 2X the amount of lasthits at that point. Along with your manta and diffusal. Just remember to get the manta early.

You rate Manta Style much more in that game than it should have been worth it. When Invoker drops the hammer, the illusions die anyway. Manta illusions die even faster. Butterfly was the right choice, but he needed a Black King Bar too.

I can tell from just this comment then you have never played radiance naga.

Manta gives good dps, farm speed and massive map controll. And you dont want to get it becouse IF invoker lands his combo your illusions die. And that also relies the naga player clumping up all their illusions and not microing them apart from select+attack move.

Im sorry to say this wulfstan but you dont have the experiance with naga to give tips in this thread.

You're right, I only played once as radiance Naga, (game right here http://dotabuff.com/matches/545132216 As you can see, I didn't really care much about the rat, and microing my illusions, the weave + song + tombstone combo is way too good not to use it).

However, I am only talking about this particular matchup, in this single particular game. If not Invoker, then the follow-up aghs Witch Doctor (which he didn't get to buy cause the game was over) would have melted them all with the bounce.

You are following the game way too linearly here, it's like saying that an item is universally good on a hero no matter what the circumstances. Plus, I'd rather have 3 illusions that can evade attacks, than 5 that die in a pinch, since by that time, the game wasn't about rating anymore, it was about defending agaist the Radiant's siege.

And you shouldn't be sorry, you are right (to a certain extent - meaning I still stand by my point).

An example I can give is yesterday's game actually, Newbee vs EG (game 1), where RTZ was top farmer even after 7 deaths on the naga. Did it matter much? No, because when the teamfight came, her illusions were melting, that if she wasn't doomed already. The Linken's was a bad buy, since she wasn't the #1 target to doom, Mason was priority one imo, side by side with Universe.

If you want to fight you dont get travels and maybe not even radiance, and you get diffusal heart manta in the order that suits the game.

This is the problem, nobody said he wanted to fight, he was forced by the flow of the game to do so, and even better, he had a real chance, because his team had more than decent teamfight with the split betwen the QoP, Undying and SF (even CM, but Freezing Field gets disrupted very easily)

He has to defend, he can't just be like : Ok guys, well I'll just keep on fending off the inevitable push, while you just stand in the base as 4 defending against it, because, he would be the only one getting the measly farm, while his team would get nothing, and the enemies have the entire map to farm up on, exactly what Newbee proved, the war of attrition.


What I am trying to point out here is that in the defence, and I mean the teamfight, because once you are out of illusions, enemies will push in, the Butterfly would make a whole bigger difference than the Manta Style.

Ill check out the replay if i can, but just by looking at the dotabuff it doesnt seem you were that far behind especially for that far into the game, and it looks like creepwave shenanigans could save the day.