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Who, When, Where, How annnnnnd Why!!!!

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Who, When, Where, How annnnnnd Why!!!! 36 posts - page 3 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » June 6, 2014 1:31am | Report
@Xyrus,

lvl 1 fire spirits for last hitting. static link invoker? micro them for last hits. easy peasy japanesy.

patient relocate my friend ... just wait till he shows his head trying to go for that first tower and by then tiny will be farmed as wind wont be able to come in to deny or harass since she will be forced to play cautious. bye bye natures prophet. i dont have to relocate to the jungle to try and get him. he has to push to be viable so when he pops his little head out....take it off.

tbh lycan will have to push from lvl three and not stop to have an impact. my team fight is too much for them to handle and with 4 heroes. i can finish towers quicker and honestly against that line up with my draft id be pushing mid from 10 mins till ancient fall. with relocate ganks to slow split push down and maybe a few tp's to catch an over extended natures or lycan. their split push would be bogged down with edilons and midnight pulse from a lane jumping enigma. either they would have to commit to a 2-3 lane split push where a invoker could deal with one lane and tiny - io combo with two.

they would have to finish before the 20 min mark or they would lose.

also .... No Stun Doto ... you cant win with out stuns. simple.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » June 6, 2014 1:47am | Report
@FleetAU

counter draft.

mid - Silencer
aggro trilane support - shadow shaman
aggro trilane carry - Juggernaut
aggro trilane semi support - Lion
solo safelane - Slark

ins and outs:

silencer stops team fights.and will provide good harass against sky early game where mana is important for him. plus his core items will shut down sky in team fights as well as luna (before BKB)
ss has crazy push and disable.with him in a aggro trilane against luna and Sk and venge lvl 3 disable
lion will nuke out luna mid game and provide good lane support in an Aggo trilane plus mana steal to shut down venges stun.
jugg ... blade fury... healing ward ...nuff said
slark will be able to deal with clockwerk easily in lane with an uninterruptable escape. and later will be able to gank and isolate in team fights.

i think thats a good counter but im not certain haha. thoughts lads?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » June 6, 2014 2:39am | Report
Mid - Clockwerk
offlane - Bloodseeker/Timbersaw
aggro support #1 - Ancient Apparition
aggro support #2 - Bane
aggro carry - Alchemist

Bloodseeker solo safelanes against jugg-lion-ss trilane,Bloodcyka being picked only because the spammable silence which works so well against slark and silencer, and his passive which helps in making some clutch plays with clock and appa in my draft

Timber can be good too, as he can take a ton of harras, get levels and nuke the very very squishy dudes in your lineup into Caesar's salad :D

my trilane against slark to completely shut him down, effectively removing him from the game (you know how crucial the first 15 mins are for slark),

Clockwerk against silencer mid. this can be a bit troublesome but clock can harass and take some last hits with 1 point in flare to dispell that **** silencer does (with the classic level one opponent base flare :D)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Zerak Kyria » June 6, 2014 3:01am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

See ... one little thread and everyone jumps on top :) love it.

ok ready!

New Draft startiiinnnnngggg NOW!


Mid- [Invoker] - Pos 2
Safe lane trilane - [Tiny] - Pos 1
safe lane support - [Io] - pos 5
Jungler - [Enigma] - pos 4
Solo offlane - [Elder Titan] - pos 3

[Invoker] - Provides global presence with [Sun Strike], Crowd control with deafing blast, tornado, meteor combo and some push with fire spirits.
[Tiny] - Io tiny combo for more global presence and relocate ganks plus the damage output and stuns. also the Aghs upgrade will wreck people stuck in black hole.
[Elder Titan] - utility hero, able to offlane well and still get last hits overlay his ulti on enigmas and thats gg.
[Io] - floating fountain. relocate ganks. safelane harass with spirits. Io is God Bow before him.
[Enigma] - safelane jungler provides help in lane. good push with edilons. BKB dismissing ultimate. able to spread the XP gain out for the team and force split pushes.

also imagine that combo.

enigma blackhole with midnight pulse. EMP, Meteor. Elder titans Earth splitter through the middle. tiny mops up survivors ....


Ok Shoot!

Ok, I skipped countering all the other drafts because I wanted to counter dis one.


Mid: Silencer
Safelane: Lifestealer
Offlane: Nyx Assassin (personal fav)
Hard Support: Vengeful Spirit
Support: Dazzle(DAZULE!!)
Before you start thinking about what could possible go wrong, I'm just going to say it. Everything.

Ok;
Silencer mid as to harass, silence and otherwise piss off Invoker along with gaining early levels for Global Silence which will shut down your team fight capabilities once every 250 seconds...
LS for his magic immunity to walk through Invoker and Tiny spells along wth appearing out of nowhere with NA.
NA for stuns, mana burn and can gank well. Not to mention Wisp having low health and being an ideal target. He can also snowball if things go well so yeah.
Venge for her stun and ability to cancel Black Hole not to mention her passive damage bonus for LS and Silencer which can possibly hurt late game. also now since the patch the negative damage bonus will help against Tiny. Also early kills ez with stun and negative armour.
Dazzle because he can keep someone alive, heal, slow so as to help with early kills and also his ult can really just help with tearing the other team apart due to the physical damage capabilities of the team.

Lanes:
Silencer mid as mentioned.
LS as solo safelane.
Dazule, NA and Venge as aggresive tri with the two supports possibly roaming when need be for kills in other lanes. NA can roam once hit lvl 6.

In my head, this should counter your team... except Tiny with aghs so basically it based around negative armour and some disables to kill him off easily.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by FleetAU » June 6, 2014 3:41am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

@FleetAU

counter draft.

mid - Silencer
aggro trilane support - shadow shaman
aggro trilane carry - Juggernaut
aggro trilane semi support - Lion
solo safelane - Slark


i think thats a good counter but im not certain haha. thoughts lads?

I agree that silencer vs skywrath mage isn't great for skywrath, however there are better counters. As silencer is squishy and he won't be able to always steal skys mana, silencers first ability is basically useless and sky can spam his spells easily rendering it useless. As for slark if he leaps onto clock then he is screwed pretty much, battery ***ualt and cogs and even if he ults he can't leave cogs giving time for TP support from sk for example. I agree jug will be pretty nasty for luna. honestly the tri-lane vs tri-lane would go in my drafts favour, more stuns and shackles can be canceled. Jug isn't very useful againt a tri-lane at lvl 6 because his ult does nothing vs 3 heroes. If lion mana drains then luna can stun with long range nuke and sk can come in and thats a dead lion.
And if the team could hold out until late game which I think it could because as soon as someone split pushes on your team they are a good as dead. And late game your lineup would get out carried. My thoughts anyway
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » June 6, 2014 6:41am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

@Xyrus,

lvl 1 fire spirits for last hitting. static link invoker? micro them for last hits. easy peasy japanesy.

Pff, 29 Damage? Forge Spirit's Last Hitting power is OP! X{D

Besides, you need to get to lvl3 in order to do this. Even then, it should still be better for Invoker to Last Hit while the Forge Spirits Harrass. He'll regain some Lane control, but Razor will already be of to a good start.
Smuggels wrote:

patient relocate my friend ... just wait till he shows his head trying to go for that first tower and by then tiny will be farmed as wind wont be able to come in to deny or harass since she will be forced to play cautious. bye bye natures prophet. i dont have to relocate to the jungle to try and get him. he has to push to be viable so when he pops his little head out....take it off.

What makes you think that Io will be lvl6 before Profit starts Pushing? He only needs maybe 2 or 3 points in Treants to Tank the Tower, between 3 Heroes and the treants he can get the Safe Lane tower pretty easily at lvl5, at which point, Io should maybe have reached lvl4.
Smuggels wrote:

tbh lycan will have to push from lvl three and not stop to have an impact. my team fight is too much for them to handle and with 4 heroes. i can finish towers quicker and honestly against that line up with my draft id be pushing mid from 10 mins till ancient fall. with relocate ganks to slow split push down and maybe a few tp's to catch an over extended natures or lycan. their split push would be bogged down with edilons and midnight pulse from a lane jumping enigma. either they would have to commit to a 2-3 lane split push where a invoker could deal with one lane and tiny - io combo with two.

they would have to finish before the 20 min mark or they would lose.

They actually have the Pushing Power to win at 20:00 tbh, especially when you have a Nature's Prophet + Lycanthrope with Treants, Wolves and Howl at lvl5, smashing through a Tier 1 AND 2, there's very little to stop them early on.
Smuggels wrote:

also .... No Stun Doto ... you cant win with out stuns. simple.

This thread is full of no-Stun-DOTO, isn't it 8{3



Moving on...
Smuggels wrote:

@FleetAU

counter draft.

mid - Silencer
aggro trilane support - shadow shaman
aggro trilane carry - Juggernaut
aggro trilane semi support - Lion
solo safelane - Slark


i think thats a good counter but im not certain haha. thoughts lads?

FleetAU wrote:

I agree that silencer vs skywrath mage isn't great for skywrath, however there are better counters. As silencer is squishy and he won't be able to always steal skys mana, silencers first ability is basically useless and sky can spam his spells easily rendering it useless. As for slark if he leaps onto clock then he is screwed pretty much, battery ***ualt and cogs and even if he ults he can't leave cogs giving time for TP support from sk for example. I agree jug will be pretty nasty for luna. honestly the tri-lane vs tri-lane would go in my drafts favour, more stuns and shackles can be canceled. Jug isn't very useful againt a tri-lane at lvl 6 because his ult does nothing vs 3 heroes. If lion mana drains then luna can stun with long range nuke and sk can come in and thats a dead lion.
And if the team could hold out until late game which I think it could because as soon as someone split pushes on your team they are a good as dead. And late game your lineup would get out carried. My thoughts anyway

Aside from Omnislash being useless against a Tri-Lane, I've got to agree with Fleet here.

Nyx Assassin would be better against Skywrath Mage tbh and placing a Nyx mid gives him an easy Blink Dagger.

Slark can easily escape and chase through Cogs with Leap, although the Mana Burn can be useful.

With the Aggressive Tri-Lane, I'd add more Damage than Crowd Control, maybe swap the Shadow Shaman for a Leshrac, or a Visage. You're not getting Mass Serpent Wards very quickly in a Tri vs Tri setup anyway, so it's best to go with Heroes that can dominate 3 vs 3 at lvls1-3, since by then one side has either "won" or "lost".
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » June 8, 2014 6:26pm | Report
ok new draft. kinda thought about this one a bit and its a bit unusual but i feel it might work.

aggressive trilane

- OmniKnight
- Shadow Shaman
- Mirana

Mid

- invoker

solo safelane

- Meepo (last pick)

bans: 1. faceless 2. lich 3. silencer 4. lich 5. earthshaker

now the whole idea of this is full map synergy. exp spread. early game dominance. strong push and split push. global mobility and offense.

why:

aggresive trilane with mirana as carry. SS can shackle with omni repel on him to counter stuns. mirana long range arrow should land just as lvl 1 shackle ends so 5 seconds of stun early game is OP then right clicks should finish them off. lvl 2 combo would be similar but with omni heal on ss during shackle which would deal damage to melee heroes right clicking him and then mirana leap in to slow and ss to chicken lowest health enemy surviving hero for a double kill. now once invoker has sunstrike, the synergy steps up a notch. repel -Shackle - sunstrike - arrow for a kill, then chicken -leap - starfall - heal for double and maybe right clicks for triple if against trilane.

now the meepo solo safe is this.

with lvl 3 meepo he can pull and stack by himself and if attacked he can poof back to his safe meepo. with double net he will be able to hold down their solo offlaner for a early net - sunstrike - poof combo. if up against an aggro trilane he can still gain gold and exp with his jungling meepo and his lane meepo can just sap xp in lane and since he will be solo he will be gaining some serious xp. meepo will go straight Boots of travel and once finished he will go bottom and push tower down with SS serpent wards and multiple meepo's. then just bounce all over the map for ganks and split pushes while SS and Mirana search for ganks under moonlight shadow and omni and invoker wreck some fights with repel, heals and Guardian Angel.

with bans and late meepo pick i might shut down some counter drafts but id love to see if people think it would work? and possible counters? :D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KoDyAbAbA » June 8, 2014 6:34pm | Report
Smuggels wrote:

ok new draft. kinda thought about this one a bit and its a bit unusual but i feel it might work.

aggressive trilane

- OmniKnight
- Shadow Shaman
- Mirana

Mid

- invoker

solo safelane

- Meepo (last pick)

bans: 1. faceless 2. lich 3. silencer 4. lich 5. earthshaker

now the whole idea of this is full map synergy. exp spread. early game dominance. strong push and split push. global mobility and offense.

why:

aggresive trilane with mirana as carry. SS can shackle with omni repel on him to counter stuns. mirana long range arrow should land just as lvl 1 shackle ends so 5 seconds of stun early game is OP then right clicks should finish them off. lvl 2 combo would be similar but with omni heal on ss during shackle which would deal damage to melee heroes right clicking him and then mirana leap in to slow and ss to chicken lowest health enemy surviving hero for a double kill. now once invoker has sunstrike, the synergy steps up a notch. repel -Shackle - sunstrike - arrow for a kill, then chicken -leap - starfall - heal for double and maybe right clicks for triple if against trilane.

now the meepo solo safe is this.

with lvl 3 meepo he can pull and stack by himself and if attacked he can poof back to his safe meepo. with double net he will be able to hold down their solo offlaner for a early net - sunstrike - poof combo. if up against an aggro trilane he can still gain gold and exp with his jungling meepo and his lane meepo can just sap xp in lane and since he will be solo he will be gaining some serious xp. meepo will go straight Boots of travel and once finished he will go bottom and push tower down with SS serpent wards and multiple meepo's. then just bounce all over the map for ganks and split pushes while SS and Mirana search for ganks under moonlight shadow and omni and invoker wreck some fights with repel, heals and Guardian Angel.

with bans and late meepo pick i might shut down some counter drafts but id love to see if people think it would work? and possible counters? :D


replace mirana with ursa and you are ready to go!
and replace the second lich (:P) with disruptor as he ****s you up.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » June 8, 2014 7:03pm | Report
lol haha i meant disrupter but then decided to enter the numbers for bans and must have got rid of it :P lol cheers ...

hmm i was going for a ranged carry/utility hero in lane so if they had a strong trilane they could still get last hits and mirana and ss together equals 7-8 seconds of lock down at lvl 1. i can see why ursa would be good though.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Terathiel » June 9, 2014 1:01am | Report
Smuggels wrote:

ok new draft. kinda thought about this one a bit and its a bit unusual but i feel it might work.

aggressive trilane

- OmniKnight
- Shadow Shaman
- Mirana

Mid

- invoker

solo safelane

- Meepo (last pick)

now the whole idea of this is full map synergy. exp spread. early game dominance. strong push and split push. global mobility and offense.


Ok then, let's try this.

-Mid: Nyx Assassin. Nyx is an effective counter to Invoker, as he will be able to kill Invoker during the fade time of Moonlight Shadow. Also stomps Shadow Shaman, and will easily be able to kill Meepo if he catches him out.

-Aggressive trilane: Rubick. He has a lot of choice spells to steal - Guardian Angel, SS ult, Mirana ult, anything from Invoker. Also can potentially stun all of the Meepos, allowing for early kills.
-Slardar. The trilane will be funnelling the farm to him, allowing for a fast Blink Dagger. This gives initiation, and a tank, something otherwise lacking from the draft.
-Ogre Magi. Apart from the massive steroids to PA, he also gives lots of magical damage that doesn't care about Guardian Angel, and allows Rubick and Slardar to get close to Meepo to set up the stuns.

-Solo safelane: Phantom Assassin. Although I initially thought of Weaver, one stun combo and he was dead. PA doesn't have to get close - and whilst she is countered by Omni's ult, the plan is to either avoid teamfights while Omni's ult is up or to have Nyx kill Omni, then force a fight. Also is incredibly dangerous whilst under Bloodlust.

The plan of the team is to completely shut down Meepo and prevent him snowballing, whilst PA last hits with Stifling Dagger and tries to survive, before finishing the game at ideally 20-30 minutes. Bloodlust cheats PA online earlier than she otherwise would be.
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