What Steam/Ice Frogger + Community should have done a long time ago...

The biggest obstacle in being able to make the most positively significant changes to this or pretty much any game is in being certain that the community is playing the game as optimally can be played.

If steam and the developers are not getting people on the same page in how to approach the game through insightful guides then they are going to lose massive amounts of customer and profit potential. They will not take the risk in making worthy changes to the game until the community is on the same page in how to play the game correctly and optimally.

With that said, one of the biggest down falls that I have seen in this game is when a team with a few to a majority being nukers bully the other team from the start, creating a snowball effect of domination on their end through a combination of gold and levels. The other team, if they do not get get together as a single unit, or become impatient, will fall in to a hopeless black hole of certain loss which will generate negative motivation to finish out the game.

What I believe that the community here at the forums can do to instill hope back in to public games with these hopeless to un-motivating situations is to make a list of all the characters that
play the general stat build approach. Then... lay out teams of THESE heroes that cover all the bases for what makes up a decent team.

This will get players to take the most reliable and progressive starting item load out which will consist of the parts to make tranq boots or 2 armor ring/wand in to Tranq Boots/Wand and then the last 4 remaining slots are occupied with Bracers. If a player can be cautious about getting the most expensive item out of the way, boots, then he should be able to keep his gold spent on the parts that he can progressively build in to those general stat items which helps them reach the the all stat approach will be able to progress to an inventry of tranq boots and 5 drums of endurance(selling out the wand). Whether your an intellegence, strength, or agility hero, collecting bracers in to drums of endurance will still work if your character can effectively play the all stat approach.

If people were aware of this, then we might see something like noob teams being completely composed of general stat heroes, intermediate teams being composed of a majority/minority of these heroes, and expert teams having the most balls and freedom due to their skill, feeling the least pressure to make teams of general stat heroes.


When players stop dying with gold in their inventory, that will be the turning point in this game when players will still have a great deal of hope in being able to come back and win a game with team work, only obstacle being a potential difference in levels but at least not gold and levels....

So where is this organized hero list? Apparently it is non existent.

Oh Kyfoid, you never fail to crack me up.

You're right, I suppose we should just build tranq and 5 drums on our heroes. I simply can not argue with that.

I mean, surely someone has thought of this before?

I am just irked at the moment.... Take intelligence heroes for example... surely there is an intelligence hero that exists that would actually benefit from attack damage quite well as they would have some kind of skill buffer that would enhance damage or attack speed. Therefore, they would want to collect all stat type of gear since agility and strength would both increase attack and tanking ability through armor and life pool. Even though bracers are higher strength stat then intellegence at start, an intellegence heroe could still collect at least 1 null tallism and make it in to a dagon with the rest of the bracers made in to a drum of endurance which increases all stat.

Remember, were trying to take the most progressive approach as possible here.


It seems that a lot of characters can almost by pass the need for a mana pool all together with a soul ring which I kind of find to be ********* as this not only degrades the significance of the mana pool category compared to agility and strength, but kind of ruins the potential of the progressive all stat approach.

It seems what I am looking for are the types of characters that can really make the best use of a higher mana pool but still can make decent effective use with additional strength and agility.

This pretty much goes for any of the 3 classes of heroes.

I'm sorry Kyfoid, but DotA really isn't friendly to its users in that regard. What you're tampering with right now is the most delicate and core part of DotA, which is socially agreed upon to not change. It's the structure of the game itself, if you were to change it, it would change the game's fundamentals. It would be a different game. And besides, a player can not truly learn the game without being really, really bad at first- if you were to spoonfeed everything and let them do easy stuff at first is a slow and inferior way to make them get better, though it is less discouraging.

You have to first pick meepo, get no items on him and max geostrike first and feed so hard that you get to Low Priority for 4 days to truly learn.

Actually, the only INT hero who truly benefits from DPS in general is NP (OD isn't considered because he doesn't really need attack speed) and he's still better off with his normal build than 1 dagon, tranqs and 4 drums.

And why are you so inclined to this so called progressive approach? From my point of view, it's not progressive at all.

Aside from merely being bothered by soul ring somewhat, which I am open to people suggesting heroes that are so mana oriented that they benifit from a higher mana pool over soul ring, what am I suggesting is suppose to change?

Explained beyond more then perfectly in the OP.

Correct me if I'm wrong, you made this whole post because you hate soul ring?

(I also hate soul ring though)

Soul Ring obviously have its downs to be used. I mean, INT heroes have low health base use Soul ring and 150 hp is gone. If you're smart, you'll go kill them. I don't understand where your arguement is getting.

And there are INT heroes that can be played as carry, take Nature's Prophet. He can be used as a carry the deals massive DPS with the right equipment. This is well-said by Samukobo

Alright then, so you guys are saying that there do exist heroes that can play an all stat approach well or better then others.

I want to know is which ones can do this the best from each class... hell, maybe class is not a matter for putting together a team that can be all stat approach and cover a diverse range of roles well in order to have a decent team.

Look, Kyfoid, this is the very essence and core of Dota that you would like to change (like Samukobo stated). If you change it, it would no longer be Dota. But if you really want it to change, then make your own version of Dota and we'll see what'll happen. If you really hate Dota that much, go play other games like LoL and HoN, as long as you don't change Dota. Because the way I see it, if you were the person who made Dota instead of Icefrog, then it would be a HORRIBLE game. You want Dota to work in the same way that your mind works: ****py and HORRIBLE, which is a big NO-NO. So next time, if you don't want the community, try to think thoroughly of what you're trying to post next time, okay?

Have a nice day!