How to buff : Force Staff

What a **** item, often named as "BadGlimmer" or "in case of clock" almost no hero have this item as a core, the stats are poor (10 int and some regen) for 2250 gold and a **** active that forces you for 900 dotameters and in a slow speed (i already died as a venge and a sniper with some farm 3 shot me while i was forcing back, with this money you can buy drums or veil or even a blink
So, its time for the frog comes balance this item in 6.86 ? Does it need a huge buff or just some small changes? Here are some small ideas
1)Forcing a hero give invulnerability for 1s (Just for REAL saves and not just changing the place of his death)
2)Give back the quarterstaff compound, it would generally buff silencer and OD as they are force staff lovers but are starting to skip this item
3)Force staff + Tranquil boots = Force boots, this would solve 2 bad itens with np late game aspect ( Generally you have to sell this 2 itens by then) and would be fun and broken as hell, 10 + int, 10 perma regen , + 3 armor but you can only use the active in yourself
4)maelstorm + forcestaff + recipe(1000)= magnetic staff
This is my own creation, retain the stats with more atack speed(like + 30 or something) with a fun passive and active
Passive: Magnetic Chain - 20% chance proc, gives a chain lighting every time its proc and it gives a 30 % slow and true strike for 5 seconds, Dispellable, efect can jump to other targets
Active: Magnetic Grip - force target in the oposite direction he is facing and can grip him in any target like a tree, a creep or a hero, the grips last 2 seconds

Side note: i think this item could work for many things like:
It would give force staff a late game
Gives an alternative use for maelstorm
End of the: Rush monking king bar on carries , seriusly this item sucka
As well as synergy with many heroes like wind and Elder
Well people, feel free to share your thoughs and opnions

I still really like this item, build it quite often, on supports at least. You'll also see a lot of initiators with both Force and Blink.

Tbh I think the issue isn't so much Glimmer Cape (although it's another option that a lot of supports like to pick up), but Blink Dagger - as in Blink is so popular, Force gets forgotten.

Supports also have a lot of choices these days about their mid-late items now - Glimmer Cape, Ghost Scepter, Solar Crest, Guardian Greaves, Eul's Scepter of Divinity.

I think a very small buff is in order - the HP regen is pretty useless on the whole, I'd much rather see the Ring of Regen replaced with say a Bracer or Belt of Strength and I think you have a much better item (adjust the cost, of course).

Hello Sando, i am your fan, you are like the best support of dotafire(as hamstertamer is the carry) and your guides show so :^)
Glimmer was the go to item every support bought in 6.84 and outclassed Force staff
Although it was nerfed, we still have Ghost Tp Scepter and Blink which still serves the purpose better than force staff
the issue is that even on a support Force staff does not have a scale or at least a ability synergy with the meta supports, as a example see Dazzle, WD, Winter waifu, Undying, CM. Can only see With kotl and best, i also agree that the hp regen is ****, OD depends on this item for his HP regen and we see that he lacks it
One thing that scaleness and **** regen is the Force boots idea, it would give nice regen and a scale to the 2 itens, it just needed a small recipe and some changes
I did not like the belt of strengh idea cause it would be the necromicon with diferent recipe
But bracer is a nice idea, many supports build it ( Sing SIng build ) and would be nice
Headress could be option too as it would give stats and a better regen

I like this item, it's one of my favorites (though I find it immensely overrated on Sand King). Position manipulation is something I really find effective for keeping both myself and my allies alive, because people tend to get tunnel vision and misposition themselves chasing someone that gets force staved away. Plus it helps chase people. The amount of misdirection and kiting of the item can provide makes me not place it in the "**** item" tier, especially in pubs where the enemy carries that are popular are hurt pretty badly by going on these chases. (Yay for Storm Spirit nerfs)

However, the item does feel a little bit weak right now, especially in terms of it's stats and it's slot penalty. It would benefit from having more useful stats (like armor or strength as suggested here), and since the support items are closer to even this patch, a buff would be welcome, but I don't find it required, not like how I'd like a buff to Crimson Guard.

If I'm doing poorly on a Pos 3-5 hero that benefits strongly from Blink Dagger but I can't farm it, Force Staff is the item I always buy in order to get into the game, because of it's superior buildup, unless I'm Sand King, where I will often go for survival items. Heroes like Lion, Centaur Warrunner , Enigma, Tidehunter and Earthshaker can all benefit from the item as one of desperation.

I completely agree on the buff part but we should also remember that we have only talked about using it for escaping purposes and chasing purposes . I do not wish to go against any of you and I are you're right . One thing is that one of the main purposes of force staff is not chasing or escaping , it is equally used to dislocate enemies and interrupt channelled spells.

Remove mana cost. Increase force distance by 300 units.

There.

Sometimes I like to buy Force Staff when I'm not doing that well, and then later on, sell for a Blink Dagger when I get the funds.

However I do get Force Staff a lot and love it for pulling enemies out of position, and pulling allies out of harm's way. I've saved a lot of people with my force staff.

Am I the only one who thinks Force Staff needs a small *nerf*?

The big strength of this item is the fact that you can cast it on teammates from a 800 range, and you can cast it on enemies as well. 800, not 600. That's a huge difference. It allows supports to just sit back in fights and save teammates from a long range. It allows you to initiate on enemy heroes especially during high ground siege.

Glimmer Cape *used* to be better, but that's like saying that X hero in 6.83 is trash because he's just an underpowered Troll Warlord. Every hero was. Glimmer was absurdly OP because Dust of Appearance had 4 times (!!) the cooldown of imba cape. But now dust has been buffed to slow more and have half cooldown so now glimmer actually has a counter and can be punished. If you get dusted during glimmer you now get slowed a lot and you can do nothing about it. Glimmer has a counter now with the changes (buy dust on your cores), forcestaff still has none.

Blink Dagger is better for *yourself* definitely, but force can be used on teammates. You only need one force for 5 people, so that's 5 times more value for your team.

Forcestaff is really that item you buy on completely item-independent supports and that's good in every game. Literally just a 2K gold investment gives you both an escape mechanism and a game-changing ability to save teammates all game long. Of course force sucks on cores like outworld devourer except in maybe 1 game out of 10 when they have a Clock or a Drow...but it's an item for Dazzle, Lich and friends! Nah, this item doesn't need a buff.

Also, just look at the list of heroes that forcestaff hard counters. Lifestealer. Razor. Sven. Drow Ranger. outworld devourer... Literally some of the worst heroes in dota have the big weakness that they can be endlessly kited with this item. Nerfing force buffs these heroes.

You could change forcestaff to be more selfish (e.g reduce the cast range from 800 to 650 and make it give +20 attack speed to make it good on OD and Silencer again)...but you can't straight up buff the item IMO without changing the cast range.

I think I'm in between the two main opinions here, for me Force Staff is really a fantastic item and a very useful one for many heroes, for the reasons already stated above, but that doesn't justify a nerf, because Blink Dagger is still the better option most of the times if you have the money.

Also, the Ring of Regen feels very useless indeed and the suggestion of exchanging it for a Bracer (or even the also mentioned Belt of Strength) would make the build up of the item perfect.

PS: I went to Dotabuff to check, and this is my second most bought item, which I think says something on how good I think it is :D http://www.dotabuff.com/players/175327573/items