Xyrus's Inhouse Rant + Poll

Well, the surprise is out of the bag I guess. 8{(

We need 2 extra people to pull this off, but it shouldn't be THAT hard. 8{)

I don't mind trying new stuff, but the in-house for me doesn't feel like a place to do so. It feels like a competitive environment, such as a tournament or something. I don't like to try new stuff when everyone else wants to win, because no matter what hero I am trying it will take more than one game to learn.

For example when I played Naga Siren which was something I had never done before, it didn't really end too well. I don't actually recall any salt in that game (besides maybe the song on top of ravage moment... woops!), so it was actually okay, but I still went away feeling pretty bad because I had basically screwed up the whole game.

I'll play new heroes in party matchmaking or in my own time, but I'd rather learn how to play these heroes to some extent before I try in in any of these games.

I think the issue here is just captains not communicating or people not communicating during the pick phase, anybody that has played with me knows when we go in and i pick captain i turn on open mic and I ask everyone what they want to play and half the time only 1 or 2 people will say anything during the pick phase, really it's kind of frustrating when people complain that they are doing bad because of their hero when i clearly asked everyone what they wanted to play and half the people didn't even say so, so I just pick something simple and useful to play that can do well with the team like Wraith King, Lion or whatever else. and In reality a lot of the heroes in dota aren't particularly difficult to play and you can play them decently without ever playing them before, however Naga Siren is not a simple hero to play and frankly i don't think it should be drafted unless in a mid or core role in the in-houses as it's a hero that simply sucks as a support unless you are extremely co-ordinated as a team and are always on the same page.

oops, did i do something i wasn't supposed to do?

well, on the serious note, i can be a regular coach if you guys play on the Luxembourg server, since my ping isn't good enough to play on, but should be good enough for me to see what is happening. So one more player hehe

While I agree it's frustrating to be known as "that salty person", I have to agree with Tim here, because If I remember correctly Walooj you were one of the people that I didn't know when I started joining the in-houses, and I ended up playing Winter Wyvern (with which I'm not that horrible) in a game where you yelled at us all so much that I actually couldn't click the buttons anymore out of all the stress. You say this doesn't happen 80% of the times, but if this is the first impression you give someone, well... You know it isn't a good one.

I say more: you should notice something is wrong when someone has to disconnect because of the toxicity (thinking also of the last in-house when I participated). You're playing in 10 man stack to avoid precisely that!

Also I think than more than being irritated by the mistakes made, the problem is most people that want to point them out also never admit their own mistakes nor apologize (read Smuggels blog please).

Why don't adopt as a rule simply to not give "advices" (being gentle here) to people that didn't ask for them? If someone asks for it, then ok, if not, let the person learn with his own mistakes, chances are they're gonna do it with our without you poiting them out. Because the whole "I'm better than you so I can correct you" is much less black and white than this.

(but hey, I think this is a very healthy and interesting conversation to have about the in-houses, and will probably make them improve a lot)

Absolutely. And although the honesty can be a bit painful, everyone is accepting the criticism as intended I think. Reckon some of this negativity floating around has been effecting turn outs for the inhouses and it's good to start dealing with that.

I'll try to keep it short, but here's my opinions, in no particular order:

Please bear in mind, I'm not having a pop at anyone specifically here, and especially the organisers who've put the time and effort into keeping them going. Everything that's happened has often been with the best of intentions, it just hasn't always worked out.

- I don't have a clue how competitive to be for inhouse. Should I be 100% to win? Put my most experienced players in the "best" roles and try to hide the "weaker" ones? Make synergy picks or comfort ones? I tend to urr towards the side of letting people do what they want and accepting the consequences.

- When drafting, I sometimes don't have a clue who half the team are, because I don't know them or they're on smurf names. I don't know what they play, and whether to draft a "competitive" line up or a fun one. Usually there isn't enough time to discuss it, and mistakes and misunderstandings will occur.

- Captaining. I remember "calling" the game a few times for the team, once I think we lost but managed a good team fight or two, and felt like we'd made some progress by the end. Second one was touch and go but we won a GG, and people seemed happy with how I talked them through - that was nice. Hopefully they meant it :)

- We don't always know how many, who or what will turn up, so it does make it hard to organise and balance the teams. Balance is always the key to GGs - if everyone feels like they can contribute and play to their ability and make a difference, that's good.

- Personally, as a "more experienced" player, I turn up feeling like something's on the line for me. Due to the bazillion guides I think some people's expectations of me are sky high, when in reality I'm a pretty respectable 4k pub player who doesn't get to play that much any more. I want to help the less experienced players do well and enjoy the game...and I also want to try to look skilled and have a decent, fun time.

- Having an opposition high ranker snowballing hard with a competitive mid that they're really good with, the likes of Storm Spirit, Ember Spirit etc are difficult to deal for experienced supports when they're ahead. Inexperienced ones are just food.

- Less experienced players make mistakes which are "Obvious" to me, in the same way I no doubt make "dumbass" mistakes compared to better players than me. I'm used to playing pubs, I'm used to being snarky with friends about it the "bad players" on our team if we're mic'd up. I wasn't born knowing this stuff, and neither was anyone else.

- We as "experienced" players need to swallow it down a bit more, and I think the newer players will then feel more comfortable asking for advice rather than being force fed it. Maybe we need to check our ego's in at the door and not worry too much about "losing face". We're good players, we don't need to prove it.



Ahem, nailed. :-{). I think we can find some middle ground here - for example Xyrus might have his hero picked for him, but we wouldn't be too mean on account of his...y'know...Xyrusness :)



Right with ya bra, although my Enchantress is ok...how bad can it be...? :). I'm actually looking forward to having my useless Meat Hooks laughed at. I've thrown a few as Rubick, but never the fat cockney, it looks like fun though. Maybe give it a try for a few weeks? We can always have more "competitive" ones in the future.

EDIT: As requested. Dotabuff. However, Fed, bear in mind we often don't know who's coming, smurf names etc...

Another thing, if we're post up our dotabuffs, why not take the time to read through them.

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/90665982

Like, I've played Skywrath Mage more times in these inhouses than I've played Lich and Abaddon combined. While it may not mean everything, it gives you a solid idea as what a player's preferences are if you're going to be drafting (I better not see you drafting me Nyx Assassin again wulfy-chan! >:D).

I stated that i dont care about people sounding condecending. If someone gives good advice you should take it, not be insulted.

People dont just erase their mistakes in one game, if a player is bad at farming, or position or something that is not gonna go away in one game. A lot of people are worse at the game then you, so its a much better idea to focus on yourself during games and make that 4K count.

And sure you can be calm, but the problem is not about the games where you are calm, its about the games that dont go our way and you lose the zen. Which happens too often.


That game is not the particular one im talking about i thonk because you didnt leave 5 minutes in the one im thinking of.

As for the last game i played with you i remember you went saltmode too, because alenari got a dagon and said yea i thought we pretty much won the game. Aside from that he didnt say anything and despite that you went on how he should stop defending his stupid item choice.
You didnt get the title 'lord of salt' for nothing. You just often cant control your emotions.



I strongly request that this thread NOT BE CLOSED. Just because a discussion is a bit on the heavier side doesnt mean it isnt usefull.

OK so I read smuggles blog post and honestly, if you're trying saying I just point out people's mistakes to draw attention from my own then clearly you don't know me, while sure I do point out mistakes I never just point out mistakes I always follow up with the solution to the mistake and I agree I do get heated rather easily. When I play I don't neglect my own mistakes I ussually have open mic on and I very often recognize my own mistakes and point them out as soon as they happen, you'll always hear me say, "I ****ed up" or "I'm dead, i shouldn't have done that" right before dying.

Obviously though when I do suggest a solution like saying, hey please don't cold embrace me when there's so much heavy magical damage for example, and then the next time the player continues to do the same thing again and again I will obviously get really salty. I've only been playing dota for just over 2 years and i've managed to reach a milestone that people haven't after many many more years of play and if you assume i got where I am by disregarding my mistakes and constantly blaming my teammates mistakes then you're greatly mistaken so please don't assume I'm some low skilled pleb that "thinks" i'm better and is just trying to boss you around because it's always good to take advice from other players even if they aren't better than you. While I may be 5k now just a year ago I was using this website often and I followed Sando's and Peppo's guides often and while at this point I may be higher in terms of mmr I still follow the information I learned from these players.




I'm sorry if I came off that way to you in that game but in reality let's be real, I don't remember that game at all but let's be realistic here, you blame my salt for your bad performance but this may sound harsh but really, you're what, 2k mmr? you're going to make the mistakes anyways so please don't put this blame on me, if I was overly heated and salty that game then it's probably because you kept making the same mistake multiple times and you just continued on, and I shouldn't have gotten so heated as it probably put you on tilt and just continued the chain of bad plays.

Overall I'd just like to say I would like it if people put more thought into refining their play and taking advice in game instead of just disregarding said advice and making the same mistakes several times during the span of one game and carrying it on to others.

The main issue I have with playing in-house games is that the whole point is to play basically 10 stacks game where everyone is looking to play games outside of the pub environment with people who are more willing to communicate but when I get into the games I find people are very reluctant to communicate. "What hero do you want to play?" Nobody says anything so I pick heroes then they complain about their heroes. "Middle is missing stay back they are probably ganking." nobody says anything and somebody dies.
"They just ganked middle can you either place a ward to scout rotations or call missing when people are missing" and nobody does anything. I remember saying when I stopped playing that I didn't want to play anymore as everyone is so awful you don't even bother communicating and that I would rather go solo Q, what was the point of me playing in this in-house if no one ever even speaks, it's basically like playing Solo Q except your stats don't get recorded.

Here's the paradox

You are captain , you make the choice: The people said
I am the captain, i let you make your choice provided it fits to the strat: You said


They will never believe you.
That is the drawback of being captain. Of being saddled with the expectation that the captain chooses.
Of appearing indecisive if you do so much as ask" what would you like to play".


Why are there ever no disclaimers as to what an inhouse is NOT?!??
What is your motive?

Digressing further:

The standard inhouse pitch-
Oh hey! we gonna inhouserino. tell us if ya wanna capterino.
Show up at this time and we shall spend the weekend evenings together.

YAY??


The best line i ever saw was that "this is a no salt area". still it does not shed light into your object of inhouse. It is all blah-blah-blah-blah.
You make rule. Then where is the meta rule?

I made game.
I made meta: SIMPLE!



Take the blame dotaforeans. For in acceptance, there is improvement. next time an inhouse is conceived. Make it daamn clear. As clear as it is that icefrog is among you:
Why do you play?
What is expected of players?
Is there any stake?
Is it mandatory to use a mic?
Seriously, what is your god darn object in the whole wide world to play a game over the weekends only to let some people down with full salt lake city dunks?
Should they expect salt lake city dunks?
What is the punishment should someone violate rules?(Heck thats why LP exists! you made an experience unsavoury for others!) Do you apologize for Sodium chloride overdose?