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Ancient Jungler Necro

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Ancient Jungler Necro 16 posts - page 1 of 2

Poll Question:


Is it worth it?
Yay
Nay
Solo Queue Only
Do it unless/until it becomes popular
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » May 1, 2015 6:30pm | Report
So with the change to Ancient Creeps, Heartstopper now affects them and Roshan. I actually tried this once before Necro's heartstopper worked on ancients, but now that it does, I was thinking maybe it would be worth it?

The way it would be done is same as Dusa, Quelling Blade, a ward, and making sure to stack them. As long as the camp is stacked, you get gold at a pretty good pace, Ancients get shredded by Heartstopper Aura, and Midas is quite good on Necro anyway.

Now that this can be done, when do you think it should? Since it requires more heartstopper points, you won't be terrible effective until later, and some people prefer to run Necro on the lane, mainly because he's excellent at punishing enemy aggression, but this is a pretty effective way to get farmed, especially if its something that's not done on a decently wide scale on pubs yet.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » May 1, 2015 6:41pm | Report
It's a no for me. I think it's kind of the same reason why you shouldn't jungle Lone Druid...when a hero has such a good lane presence, why not lane him? You need to win your lanes. I understand why you would want to jungle a hero with garbage lane presence like Lycan, since playing Lycan as a mid or safe lane carry brings literally nothing to the lane and takes a ton of space...same for Bloodseeker. But jungling a lane dominator like Necrophos...just no.

Besides, there's an unwritten rule in dota that junglers should be able to gank when they hit level 6, ideally even before that. Junglers NEED to be either supports or gankers, otherwise you simply lose your lanes. Necro...is really not a ganker, especially with a horrendous 1/4/1/1 build. Any AFK jungler is a complete game loser : any jungler who AFK farms a Midas literally loses the game on his own. So nope.

However...can Necro solo Roshan now? If so it's really good.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » May 1, 2015 6:49pm | Report
I just opened a lobby, and it appears that Heartstopper does not affect Roshan, despite the debuff appearing on him.


That's a fair point as well. It was just an idea.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » May 1, 2015 7:31pm | Report
Cuttleboss wrote:

I just opened a lobby, and it appears that Heartstopper does not affect Roshan, despite the debuff appearing on him.


That's a fair point as well. It was just an idea.


They removed the effect on roshan, since you could basically just stand around for a few minutes and get a free rosh and aegis.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Devampi » May 2, 2015 12:09pm | Report
if it still did then necro is the first eprson to do quickest solo roshan scoring with a 4-5 minutes time
In love with the random button

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » June 16, 2015 4:00pm | Report
Okay, so I have experimented quite a bit with ancient farming Necrophos...

When I read the thread I thought well this is about maxing Heartstopper Aura on necro at the expense of his other skills, AFK farming ancients to get a Hand of Midas, and then...somehow getting a farmed Necro is the mid/late game who has contributed literally nothing to the early game.

So this was bad for pretty clear reasons. AFK junglers lose games. Junglers who can't gank lose games because they make your team play 4 vs 5 for 15 minutes. Junglers who buy midas lose games...etc.

But...I've found that you can make it better, much better.

- First off, don't max Heartstopper Aura. Only 2 points in it. You only need 2 points for the build to be effective...more is unnecessary.
Best skill build is 3/2/0/1 at level 6, and then proceed to max Death Pulse and Sadist like a normal Necro.

- Second, no Hand of Midas. Never, ever buy Midas on a jungler. Junglers are gankers who are there to help you win your lanes. Blink Dagger. Rush a blink and then start ganking. Blink rush is core in this build because it's the only item that turns Necro into a viable ganker.

Starting items : Boots of Speed, Observer Ward.
Ward the rune spot so you don't get ganked and your ancients don't get warded.
(this way the only way to shut you down is the 2 enemy supports smoke ganking you...and even then you have boots...so you're even safer than your solo mid actually)
Skill Heartstopper Aura at 1 and 3. Death Pulse at 2,4,5,7. Only 2 points in aura, then get Sadist like the usual Necro build.
Stack at :53 if there's only 1 stack, at :52 or even :51 if there are several (missing a stack sets you back by 1 minute so try to avoid)

You get your Blink Dagger at 7 minutes.

And once you have your blink forget completely about ancients for the rest of the game and start ganking your lanes non-stop, and farming creeps normally when your ult is down.

Ancients are only there to give you a head start but after all they only give a low GPM so after the first minutes it's not worth it anymore.

Note : you can also get a 7 minute Mekansm since it's the same price as Blink Dagger. This can be really good in a pushing lineup.

So at 7 minutes...you get a level 6 Necrophos with either a blink or a mek, who can start being active. So yeah, if like this you farm one item and then start joining your team at the 7 minute mark, I think it's viable.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » June 16, 2015 4:11pm | Report
Hamstertamer wrote:

Okay, so I have experimented quite a bit with ancient farming Necrophos...

When I read the thread I thought well this is about maxing Heartstopper Aura on necro at the expense of his other skills, AFK farming ancients to get a Hand of Midas, and then...somehow getting a farmed Necro is the mid/late game who has contributed literally nothing to the early game.

So this was bad for pretty clear reasons. AFK junglers lose games. Junglers who can't gank lose games because they make your team play 4 vs 5 for 15 minutes. Junglers who buy midas lose games...etc.

But...I've found that you can make it better, much better.

- First off, don't max Heartstopper Aura. Only 2 points in it. You only need 2 points for the build to be effective...more is unnecessary.
Best skill build is 3/2/0/1 at level 6, and then proceed to max Death Pulse and Sadist like a normal Necro.

- Second, no Hand of Midas. Never, ever buy Midas on a jungler. Junglers are gankers who are there to help you win your lanes. Blink Dagger. Rush a blink and then start ganking. Blink rush is core in this build because it's the only item that turns Necro into a viable ganker.

Starting items : Boots of Speed, Observer Ward.
Ward the rune spot so you don't get ganked and your ancients don't get warded.
(this way the only way to shut you down is the 2 enemy supports smoke ganking you...and even then you have boots...so you're even safer than your solo mid actually)
Skill Heartstopper Aura at 1 and 3. Death Pulse at 2,4,5,7. Only 2 points in aura, then get Sadist like the usual Necro build.
Stack at :53 if there's only 1 stack, at :52 or even :51 if there are several (missing a stack sets you back by 1 minute so try to avoid)

You get your Blink Dagger at 7 minutes.

And once you have your blink forget completely about ancients for the rest of the game and start ganking your lanes non-stop, and farming creeps normally when your ult is down.

Ancients are only there to give you a head start but after all they only give a low GPM so after the first minutes it's not worth it anymore.

Note : you can also get a 7 minute Mekansm since it's the same price as Blink Dagger. This can be really good in a pushing lineup.

So at 7 minutes...you get a level 6 Necrophos with either a blink or a mek, who can start being active. So yeah, if like this you farm one item and then start joining your team at the 7 minute mark, I think it's viable.


7 minutes Blink Dagger, and not 20 minutes Radiance, as my temmate in the losing game wanted me to believe. Thanks Hamstertamer!!!

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » June 16, 2015 4:39pm | Report
I think it's way too gimmicky. Mostly because all it takes is someone context you and you are suddenly in a horrible position. Like, an enemy support can just sit near you and sap EXP, and suddenly you are in a horrible position.

You can't contest an enemy support rotation at level 1, because you'll only have a point in Heartstopper, and no items to help you survive other than your boots, (And yes, it is worth the time of supports to shut your arse down, because a Necrophos without items or EXP is just awful. Like sure, he still has ulti, but it's still so meh)

Sure, this can probably be viable in pubs as a niche strat like other gimmicky ancient farming strats. But it can't work in an organised setting, because it sounds so greedy that it's incredibly easy to shut down.

So if I get your right, you run like a 2 position equivalent Necro, giving a lane to a support initially, and then take the lane again once you have Blink Dagger?

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hamstertamer » June 16, 2015 4:42pm | Report
ChiChi wrote:

and not 20 minutes Radiance, as my temmate in the losing game wanted me to believe


One day, maybe one day Volvo will :

- Remove Radiance from the suggested items on Necrophos and Enigma
- Remove Shadow Blade from the core items on Sniper and Drow Ranger
- Remove Linken's Sphere from core items on literally every hero in the game, and put it into situational

This day my friends, scrub build will be significantly reduced.
Strategy guide : Anti-pubstomper guide.
Hero guides : Spectre , Windranger and Clinkz
== Broodmother guide out! ==

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by caine1232 » June 16, 2015 4:45pm | Report
Hide a sentry in the nearby trees and RIP anciecnt farming necro.

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