There are tree's EVERYWHERE: Timbersaw Offlane, Complete Guide 6.81

I really like this guide, but I think I like your defense against Xyrus's points even more (no offense, Xyrus. I actually love eul's too). You do a better job of describing why you make the choices you do than in the guide itself. Consider transcribing!

Your item options, justifications, and general gameplay advice are all excellent. Hoping for a 6.82 update with the new bloodstone and agh's added in! Agh's is too fun on rizz. Double ulti means two traps of slow, agonizing death, and the positioning options and burst damage just get ridiculous. Timber now counters cyka imo since his single-target silence is now aoe and you can just drop a chakram (or two!) on yourself or an ally if you get ultied without a tp (save all teh noobz).

i think that Soul ring is good on timbersaw... Manas, a lots of...

You're paying 550 extra Gold for a larger HP + Mana Pool and only a bit less Regen than you would have from Arcane Boots and Perserverance, try it, believe me, you'll never build Perserverance 1st again! 8{D

My only problem with this is that nothing should be stopping you from walking into a fight, getting your full combo off, then getting out if needs be. Silence, Stuns and Escape Mechanisms can be a pain to deal with if your Team can't do anything about it for you. With Eul's Scepter of Divinity you can Purge Silence, dodge some Disables and hold targets in place ready to time a full Combo.

If you feel you can get Kills easily enough without being thwarted then Bloodstone is better, but against competent opponents with annoying Abilities you're going to need that extra edge to make yourself much harder to Counter.

Can't argue with that logic, but Urn of Shadows + Arcane Boots + Eul's Scepter of Divinity gives you 200% Mana Regen (+ up to 1.82 Mana per second), 380 Mana and a hell of a lot of Utility for practically the same price (475 Gold less)

True, I just meant sometimes you can end games before you even have a chance to buy them if you snowball hard enough and your Team can follow up on it, i.e. Pugna 20:00 GG ftw! >8{D

I'm also gonna put in how you can use a Dagon to counter ethereal blade/ghost scepter hero's like Morphling and Tinkypuss

Well, Purge and several others I've looked up have said Soul Booster first, and I can see how that can be preferable. The reason I thought that Perseverance would be better is that it can keep you from basing indefinitely if you were predominantly focused to farming your Bloodstone.

Obviously you want to help your team as required, but if you get a Bloodstone in good time, and if you have some space and have a good round with a couple kills, you can definitely get it super fast at like 16 minutes, you are in a position to dominate the round. If you get it at around 20 minutes in an average round I think that is the best way to maximise your effectiveness mid game, which mean you are maximising your effectiveness during the period of time the hero is best at. However, If you have a poor start, getting other, less greedy items, is probably going to be better and which is something I only touched on briefly at the end I will add that in.

If we define core item as 'an item that is a prerequisite for the hero being effective' then Bloodstone wouldn't technically be core, but I feel the same could be said of any item really, because you can definitely rush Eul's Scepter of Divinity and not get Arcane Boots. Also, I definately beleive that the best way to play the hero is to get the best mana and mana regen possible and use your skills to turn the fantastic mana and mana regen into fantastic AoE damage - and, as Bloodstone gives you the most mana and mana regen, that would make a Bloodstone a prerequisite to playing the hero as best as possible, therefore making it a core item. But I should add more about what you are going to do in rounds where getting good gold isn't possible and what alternatives are available to you.

Bloodstone/huge mana item is also important because as a core you want to be getting good gold throughout the game to use effectively. Timbersaw can get truly awesome gpm but it uses a lot of mana to do so. That means you can turn the extra mana you get into gold and by the end of the game (this isn't the reason to get it, but it should be considered) it will have nearly paid for itself.

Another reason why Bloodstone is so good on Timbersaw, whereas it probably won't be on any other hero, is because he is probably the only non-intelligence hero who can burn through that much mana, and use it that effectively. The 'mana per charge' is very inefficient on pretty much any intelligence hero as percentage based will scale so much better and so much more reliably with their big mana pool. On Timbersaw, however, it isn't just a luxury cos his natural mana pool, all factors considered, sucks. Making percentage based mana regen by itself not enough.

I really believe you should not pick Timbersaw unless you have the intention of getting BoT's and using them to improve map control. It is a key way of utilizing his skillset. You have maneuverability and the ability to clear creep waves that other hero's do not have and you should use it to permanently push out lanes and pressure towers, Tinker style. Another reason why I believe Bloodstone is core is because it allows you to do this non-stop and not have to base. < This has one rounds by itself. And there is no reason you can't do that and not still be in all the fights.

I've taken out Pugna cos you're right, although he does burn through a lot of mana in fights 'cos of the low cooldowns.

The reason why I use Observer Wards is because the duration is much longer and it is rare you will the opportunity to safely get to the same spot again 3 minutes in. But i will definitely add in about using Sentry Ward's.

Might not make these alterations until tomorrow but i will get them done, thanks a lot for your input and I'd be happy to receive more.

It's a good guide, well formatted and very descriptive, I honestly can't think of a singl Item that Timber uses that isn't already in the guide. It even has a Tree map. +1 8{D

There are a few things I disagree with though:-

Bloodstone is never a Core Item on any Hero, you can win a game without it. It's nice to have an amazing amount of Regen, but you can still be effective with good Mana Management and Arcane Boots. You can definitely win games without ever completing your Bloodstone. Same with Travel Boots, since you're not a Rat Hero, they're not Core, just nice to have. 20 minute Bloodstone is excellent thoguh if someone else on your Team has already build Urn of Shadows, Mekansm, whatever is needed for the team, etc.

I also wouldn't bother building a Vanguard if you plan on building a Bloodstone, a Casual Point Booster + Stout Shield does most of what a Vanguard does anyway.

Also, build the Soul Booster before the Perserverance, as it's more important to have a larger HP/Mana Pool than it is to have Regen. In a fight, 450 extra HP means they need a couple more Nukes to finish you off and 400 Mana will give you enough to use your entire arsenal of Nukes all over again. The extra Regen from Perserverance means nothing unless you're hiding in hte Jungle, crying because you have no HP/Mana.

I wouldn't say Pugna is a counter to Timbersaw. Pugna counters Heroes with Skills that have high Mana Costs, Timber has relatively low Mana Costs and rather High HP, so he'll easily Burst Pugna's low HP Pool down before Netherward becomes a problem. If anything, Timber counters Pugna imo. ;{D

When blocking Creep Camps, I'd rather use a Sentry Ward than an Observer Ward. Against oppononets with more than one brain cell, they'll buy Sentries of their own and try to Deward yours. Placing it in a spot where they can't find it, but it still gives good vision is tricky, but if you can pull it off, feel free to use Observers, but I prefer Sentries, since I'm forcing the Supports to spend Gold and get nothing in return when they Deward.

Also, thanks!

Nice point, I will add him in! I think I missed him because he hasn't been used a lot recently.



If you hover over where it says Chakram it says in the little description, but I will put it in the guide.

Here's a tip you missed on Chakram.

HE CANT ATTACK WHILE Chakram IS SPINNING!

BTW, good guide :3

Good guide and very simple, Add Lifestealer to the enemies you fear because of Magic Immunity, since you build lots of HP items like Bloodstone and Atos and can Lock you down with Skullbasher/Abyssal Blade, he also takes away percentage hp so your Reactive Armor isn't a counter to him.