Glimmer cape on PA

So I've been thinking about this lately and tried it out and it was pretty effective. Mind you I am low MMR.

So after your core of phase/deso you get a glimmer cape then continue building damage items. I usually get S n Y to help with survivability due to the lack of BKB, then Cuirass. Once your are six slotted you can sell your glimmer and have a 10 second BKB late in the game. Thoughts?

Edit ** Adapt the idea to your MMR, I'm 3k so I usually get 6-slots but the premise of the idea is glimmer when you would get BKB and then eventually sell the glimmer for a late 10 second bkb.

Skadi is too expensive for PA, after Deso-BKB you want to get Rosh, go hg and then depending on how many buybacks and saves they have you either get megas, take at least a tower and melee rax or die twice and lose the game. After your first assault you want to fight again as soon an your BKB is off cooldown and you can't afford to farm Skadi, while SnY is cheap enough and gives you the needed spike and when you factor in it's cost and the buffs it got over the last patches, it's actually better than Skadi.

If skadi is too expensive, get an Armlet of Mordiggian Does everything SnY does for half the price.

SnY buffs are irrelevant to PA because she doesn't need chasing power anyways. Skadi PA is good because it slows through BKB, but SnY slow is useless because you already have dagger slow against non-BKB'd targets.

No idea why you thought Glimmer Cape could be a good idea for PA though?

Assuming you're playing her as a core from what your post: what do you need in all cores? I'd say damage and survivability mainly, with some amount of control, but also, and most importantly: the guarantee that you can actually DISH that damage out and you're not just disabled/kited to oblivion.

If you think Glimmer is enough for your survivibility because it gives you magical resistance, think about it like this: is magic resistance enough to help your hero survive without any other items, and does it allow you to survive while dishing out the damage? The answer is no, as you can still get completely disabled and control for the duration and you're not even invisible because you are attacking (as PA, you do nothing else besides right clicking).

So you're basically putting 1850 gold into an item that gives you 15% Magic resistance and +20 Attack speed: none of this especially help PA, is those are not her issues (AS is also not built on her because of Phantom Strike). Notice this is the reason why limmer is bought mostly in support heroes: it helps them survive because they can make use of the invisibility for several purposes, and it can be bought by them to be used on the cores as an extra help for their survivibility.

What are PA issues specifically then? Well precisely the damage/survivability/ability to dish damage. This is the reason the current PA builds look a bit like this, with all types of variations:
- Phase Boots -> Desolator --> Black King Bar --> Skull Basher/ Abyssal Blade --> Eye of Skadi/ Monkey King Bar etc.

This items solve this issues: the damage in the early game, the ability to dish out that damage in the mid to late, the control and extra survivibility in the late game.

Like Dimony and Hamster said there are other options like Sange and Yasha and Armlet of Mordiggian, but those might be more situational and are not exactly what the best players are getting now.

If you want a look into some super recent example games of some of the best PA players currently:
- Blink: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3081305682
- Chappie: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3093186847
- Midone: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2987313759
- Aggressif: https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3084383551

Hope this perspective helped! Even at 3k, you should strive to get items that are the most efficient also in higher levels, so you can keep improving in the game I'd say...

ChiChi, you forgot Vlads :(

Yes, PA is weak to magic damage. Yes, PA is weak against crowd control.

But Glimmer Cape is not the answer.

You see, PA is an early - game carry. That's just how her kit works. Therefore, your first few items should be early game focussed.

The most popular build right now is Phase Boots >> Desolator >> Vladmir's Offering. This build gives you loads of damage, good sustain, and great tower pushing. Vlad's actually solves a lot of your problems - your lack of sustain and weak pushing power despite being an early game carry.

The natural continuation of this build is Black King Bar. You see, as PA, you really want to be hitting things early game. BKB is extremely potent here. Why? Because BKB allows you to do several things: a 10-5 second window where you (generally) cannot be disabled, and 100% magic immunity.

Now let's compare Black King Bar with Glimmer Cape.

Stat-wise, BKB is far superior on PA. 200 health is better than 15% magic damage (you would have to take 1300 magic damage from 15% magic resistance to give you 200 health, and that's not counting the fact that MR doesn't stack additively). 24 Damage is also better than 20 attackspeed. This is because you can crit with the 24 damage and you already have an attackspeed steroid from Blink Strike.

Finally, the active. Black King Bar prevents most disables and Glimmer Cape doesn't. That's basically the bottom line. You can't hit things while using glimmer cape, but with BKB you can. If you use Glimmer Cape's effect to the fullest, that's 5 seconds of a fight you're not hitting anything.

Also, about the BKB duration... Glimmer Cape only lasts 5 seconds anyway :D

My PA build usually goes something like: Phase Boots >> Desolator >> Vladmir's Offering >> Black King Bar >> Skull Basher >> Boots of Travel >> Abyssal Blade >> Daedalus.

I see why Skadi is good, but I just don't like it.

I actually didn't forget, I just didn't see the PAs from last patch get Vladmir's Offering mostly :)

I think the reason why they don't go it in pro so often is because if you go Deso -> Vlads you're just doing the same thing with both items (getting damage) and not really increasing your survivibility that much:they have way too much control to allow you to lifesteal your life back in clutch situations; and also you get an item that is still not in the "big tier" item list, delaying the other items and making your late game worse - even though she is an early game based hero, she still is able to scale a bit, if you don't waste all the money in "early game items" such as Vlads.

Meanwhile, I don't agree that she lacks sustain as you put it, because you're not losing life when you're farming due to Blur, and everytime you do in teamfights you're supposed to regen back after with other ways (from Shrines to ally heals). Nor with the pushing power: PA with a Vlads still completely sucks at pushing, can't clear a wave for the life of her, nor can she attack buildings. That's just not how the hero works, so you will notice the drafts that include her are either physical assassin based - because if you murder everyone no one is up to defend the buildings :D - or compensated with other better pushers/tower hitters (see the links I posted just as an example for this also: paired with Lifestealer, Invoker, Luna).

Exception: if you're actually completely behind and getting a Deso won't help: I think Vlads is really legit there to try to survive and farm even more instead of going in dealing damage in teamfights, just to try to get back in the game.

Anyways Vladmir's Offering] right now is a really awesome supportish item, so you don't see it that much in #1s or #2s, but in any other position - meanwhile an Ogre with Vlads is commonplace now ahah

All of this to say yea you're still right in a way I think, in pubs Vlads is probs very good for a hero like PA, but that's not because it is the most efficient build or indispensable at all, it's because in pubs we are really bad players that don't manage our mana and HP well so we have a wrong idea of the relevance of sustain items. Same way at some point everyone in pubs just went Battle Fury with the ring first without giving it much thought, or how they still do that with Weaver, rushing a Linken's that's 50% of times useless.

TL DR: I think Vlads delays your power curve for an item that gives you only 40 health, 3.06 health regeneration, 4.29 armor, 2 attack speed, 24 mana, 0.88 mana regeneration, 0.125% spell damage and 2 (+ 15%) attack damage - not worf compared to getting Deso asap and BKB right after.

Rest agreed!

Agree with Chichi, now that PA has a built-in lifesteal talent at level 15, Vlads is unnecessary.

If you want sustain you can get Urn of Shadows before deso.

It's the same as Weaver players who go linkens when the enemy team has no stuns because muh regen and who could just get an urn for regen instead of a 5K gold item that does nothing.

Ahah we had the same idea.

I just remembered to share this too for our friend augustempiredota:

https://youtu.be/JZ6anAJyOas?t=1824

Dota sensei explaining why you don't want to be chainned stunned as a PA :)

Ok if you want to gank like TA i believe Shadow Blade is a much better option glimmer is more like a anti Zeus or jakiro for supports not for a core hero who goes in the middle of enemies team and start to **** around build bkb or armlet to dodge magic damage