All these 6.85 threads are doing my head in.

OOOOOOOKKKKKKKKKKKKKK we get it patch is coming up and people are excited.

but no offence meant here... wth are you people thinking ?

nerf stack amounts?
making glimmer useless?
AoE 6 second stun?
ruining undying?
buffing undying?
making TB reworked?
ADDING ARC WARDEN? you know who you are and if it happens i will be blaming YOU!!!!
messing with creep gold?
MESSING WITH MY EARTHSHAKER R U CRAZY YOU KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY BABY YOU BASTARDS!!!!!


sooooo with that being said.

an actual CONSIDERED look at what MIGHT happen in 6.85

icefrog is know to never directly nerf a previous buff or to reverse its main component. he has a history of nerfing assisted aspects of a buff to reduce its effects. if in 6.83 he changed sven stun to do 400 damage at max level he wont change that in 6.84 he will not affect the damage but he will nerf something attached. like cast range, cast animation. travel speed. mana cost. or he will rescale it to 50/150/250/400 (EXAMPLE people.)

he also has a history of "Adding" indirect nerfs/buffs. item mechanic or something similar. for example he would decrease the gold given by tier 1 towers to affect how early people group to push since now it would be more efficient to just farm.

so with those thoughts in line i have three BIG changes i think might affect things to a degree though they are not HUGE changes.

and a multitude of smaller changes that i will update later.

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BIG yet small CHANGES

1) Neutral Stacking.

Change: When a neutral camp is stacked. a passive 10% hp increase (and 2 armour, but not sure about this) to stacked creeps is applied. this stacks multiple times.

Reason: the rise of farming mids made the meta a lot less kill friendly and a lot more "outfarmy" this was exasperated by the ez at which the meta mids can clear stacked camps to gain a massive boost in gold. by passively increase the HP of the stacked camps it now takes considerably longer for those mids to farm the camps and a triple raze or lightining storm combo is now not enough to clear a camp meaning the expenditure of mana and time is also longer which is a decrease in efficiency. thus you will see smaller camps or larger camps that will most likely be contested by enemy teams. since the gold reward isnt changed the mids will now have to make the decision to farm lane or stay longer in lane before they can take a camp. this will lead to a support helping take thus leaving a lane. while this happens rotations are more likely and or possible. thus fighting will ARISE!!!

2) Streak Gold and Kill gold.

Change: Assist gold is given to those who affect the killed hero with non-damaging spells. Kill gold is decreased along with time. The longer the game goes on, the less gold a kill will give. streak gold kills increases with the duration of the Streak. The longer a streak goes on a hero the more gold the kill will give.

Reason: this is the one that im not certain of since it will affect gameplay a whole lot. BUT i think with tweaks to the mechanics it can be quite good. It will force teams to fight early yet you can also draft a later game team with the intention to turtle it out and look for kills late game. Also if one team is getting a lot of kills early game they will have a larger advantage but if the kills are on one or two heroes they have to play very safe or they risk giving a massive gold boost to the enemy. thus you have this fighting farming decision. so you have a split decision either fight early and try and win the game or get kills on cores and they try and not die but if they do the streak gold is bigger thus allowing team that were behind to come back into the game with one or two big kills/teamfights. NOW i also acknowledge that this will lead to exploitation but im sure there is a slight mechanic calculation that will optimise this to a perfect degree. so we have a controlled game with more action early and higher strategic planning later game. best of both worlds no?


3) BUT I SWEAR IM PURE!.

Change:Pure damage is now reduced by 50% of your level.

Reason:Pure damage be damned. a lot of the changes and strong meta heros are because their ultimate's have been reworked to become pure either from get go or with aghs ...im looking at you lina QoP. this doesnt really affect there strong timing windows but it deals with the late game one shot support capability of some meta heroes. for example a level 16 cm will have a 8% pure damage resistance. this change is just something ive been toying with and im not 100% certain it is even useful but i feel with the changes to the damage types a lot of what used to be strong but manageable is now just "oh **** off" kinda thing. this slows down some of the whole late game viability of those meta heros but i feel it is needed. they arent supposed to be late game magic dealers. theres strengths lay within the early mid game and this doesnt affect them that much but it slows down there late game im going to tear you a new one kinda thing.

honestly i dont like this one^ but we need a way to deal with pure damage dealers and i cant think of a direct change that will affect them. hmmmm i shall think on this one futher!

I love the first one already Snuggles. That's the exact sort of change I'd expect to happen; It's subtle, and instead of making it not feasible, it simply dissuades it instead. It's better than my idea to address it, which was to simply introduce a new creep that did a similar thing.

I look forwards to the next couple.

Who had the AoE 6 second stun? O:o

I think you're missing a lot of kappa in some of these notes by the way. Not that your points aren't valid! But I don't think any of us realistically expect these - it's an over-the-top wishlish.

So all these 6.85 threads are doing your head in...so you've added another one!? ;)

I'm open to whatever jungle stacking change works best for achieving the desired result - I'm just glad people are broadly agreeing. In this example, I'd suggest keeping a straight % HP stack bonus, so you don't favour physical/magical damage, simply make it less efficient for everyone. I'd maybe go higher than 10% though. Or add a % gold reduction too.

kappa ;)



less is more, my friend. 10% is just enough i think in fact icefrog would probably start even smaller. maybe 8% then as 6.85a/b and c comes out you will see a slight increase in percentage.

ill post 2 and 3 soon.

A point to pick the pure damage nerf. I know why you did it but the nerfs the living day lights out of outworld devourer he's not that powerful now please don't nerf he needs a buff instead.

Honestly the pure damage change is something i am on the fence about. the changes to damage types is kinda annoying and you lost a lot tactical advantage when you were able to draft stuff that could do what needed to be done because of how they caused their damage. i honestly dont think its a good change but if there was a way to nerf pure just a tad then it might work.

I don't think the pure damage nerf changes anything really.

Given that most games are won/lost around the midgame, there'll probably only be 7-10% Pure damage reduction which is very little... and in the lategame, it's a rather large nerf to Outworld Devourer and Spectre. I'd rather reduce the damage those things do through BKB than just flat-out nerf them.

hmmm like BKB adds a pure damage resistance?

Sounds pretty good to me, as it ONLY affects Lina and QoP and not the heroes who aren't a problem at the moment. I was thinking along the lines of deals 50%-75% of the damage onto spell immune targets, or something.