I've been thinking a lot lately about our beloved Purple Ghost :
and on how to optimize her item build, especially towards the late game 6-slot build, to take the maximum advantage off her hard-carryness and scaling.
Spectre is one of these carries that people tend to build wrong. One of the worst ways to build her is to focus on direct right-click damage, because Spectre doesn't have a single steroid that synergizes with right-click. If you play right-click Spectre with items such as Butterfly, Daedalus, Mjollnir, Abyssal Blade etc, you actually get a pretty poor carry who gets outcarried easily since any carry with a steroid can manfight her and win. This leads to some pretty absurd stuff like Spectres snowballing hard off the mid-game by chasing isolated heroes around with Desolate, and still losing the late game because of bad builds and misplays.
So, what makes Spectre such a hard carry is these two things :
- She doesn't need any damage items to have high damage output, since the damage from Desolate and Haunt scales with your agility. Agility makes both your hero and your illusions hit harder and faster, meaning more Desolate procs so more damage. She's a purely stat based hero and you only need to build stats, LOTS of stats. Besides Monkey King Bar is completely useless on her since Desolate cannot miss, so that's a free item stot you don't need compared to other illusion carries like Phantom Lancer or Chaos Knight who will need MKB eventually.
- So she can focus purely on building tankiness. Dispersion is her true late game scaling skill, since killing a high HP Spectre hits the whole enemy team with huge AOE damage so after a point she's almost completely immortal. In the mid game Spectre has no way to deal with a team that 5-mans in a close pack, but in the late game she can simply run in and tank damage.
So bearing that in mind, I've tried a lot of stuff in lobby...and the build I settled with as the best 6-slot is something that might look ******ed to anyone not used to the hero :
with those as spare items (in stash, and in your belly) :
Yes, that's a Satanic and 4 (yes 4) Eye of Skadi. I'm not joking, or trolling. I truly think that it's the best build and you can't do better than that.
Why stacking Skadis? Because Skadi is the best stat item in the game, and the only thing Spectre needs is stats. Skadi gives 725 health and 25 agility. It's better than Heart of Tarrasque in every way since heart gives 1060 HP, but no AGI. Spectre needs AGI to buff herself and her illusions' right click and get more Desolate procs. Skadi >> heart since it's better to have a little less HP but an Eaglesong's worth of AGI. And Satanic gives her 2 lives, and also gives the sustain that heart would give by lifestealing creeps (so no point in getting heart for the regen).
This makes an ultra-tanky Spectre who sits at 5178 HP. 6627 effective HP when you take into account the 28% effective HP from Dispersion (yes 28 and not 22 because you divide by it, 1/(1-0.22) = 1.28). Killing this Spectre deals 1449 AOE pure damage to the entire enemy team.
But you'd have to kill her twice. Since she has Satanic to heal back all that damage.
And she sits at 32 armor. So it's really not easy to kill her :)
So if she manages to use Satanic well, this Spectre has theoretically 13255 effective HP.
And if he uses Satanic to heal up, killing her "twice" deals 2899 AOE pure damage to the enemy team. Nobody can live through that.
Which is ridiculous :)
The Skadis are also there to give her some right-click (+25 agility each, it's actually a lot), so she deals enough damage to heal up with Satanic. With this build she recovers about 3/4 of her HP from a full Satanic usage.
Refresher Orb is great on her but it should be kept in stash/on a courier. The item gives literally no stats in this patch and having it in inventory is useless.
Black King Bar helps against heavy lockdown teams to get off your Satanic duration without getting stunned. Replace a skadi with BKB if you feel that you need it. Keep it in stash otherwise.
And always eat that Moon Shard.
So the playstyle is :
- If initiating from base, use Haunt to initiate, then immediately drop an item to get Refresher Orb, refresh, get back your item, and Reality in
- If initiating from the battlefield, don't use Haunt, just walk in as your team's front line hero.
Then walk in the middle of the enemy team, get focused, and tank all the damage (yes, there are tanks in dota). So, not only will the enemy team expend a lot of effort to bring you down, during which your team can deal tons of damage itself, but Dispersion will damage them all.
With your 6K effective HP, you will survive the initial burst. Then, activate Black King Bar, use Satanic, and lifesteal back all that sweet HP. Then Haunt to clean up and get a teamwipe.
I've been searching all this time for heroes on which stacking Eye of Skadi is legit. I tried it on Medusa, Chaos Knight, Sven etc...but only now I realized that our favorite ghost is the best candidate by far.
And then, have a Weaver buy Aghanim's Scepter and Refresher Orb to Time Lapse you twice for two extra lives...and dealing 4K+ AOE damage to bring you down. Immortal Spectre...how can you even lose a game of dota with that :)
That 2800 damage you mentioned that would happen to the enemy team if they kill you with that item build is.. im sorry hamster haha but its pathetic. a six slotted PA or sven or chaos knight or gyro or medusa can do 2800 damage in seconds, and the only way spectre is gonna keep up with that is through some DPS items to complement her tankiness. Great theorycrafting post man!
@Terathiel
None of these builds make sense? Your build has little different with my build. I choose Diffusal Blade over Butterfly because DB provides more AGI and a manaburn, which provides illusions additional damage, and also the purge is very useful.
I meant in the blog :D only skimmed over the comments section.
I gotta say I don't really like Diffusal in the lategame. Idk, just something about it...
In the late game, you Haunt from base, pop your Refresher Orb, and then you just YOLO charge in the frontline in the middle of the teamfight like you just don't care, and be the unkillable tank :)
Idk if hamster wabts spectre to be an initiator that punishes if the stay looseand get punished again by her team of they group up.
I think this build is more for initiator than carry.
Otherwise heart skadi butterfly manta ftw carry
None of these builds make sense? Your build has little different with my build. I choose Diffusal Blade over Butterfly because DB provides more AGI and a manaburn, which provides illusions additional damage, and also the purge is very useful.
@KCAF
Yes we are, or you prefer everyone to stay quiet and never share their thoughts? If so then there are really no "situational" builds but personal preferred build, because there are no sharing :P
So we are arguing on what works better?
Carry on then!
My virtues deem this arguement a futile one for me.
There will always be times where you choose one over the other.
When those times are, is what interests me more.
If you stack HP, people can ignore you cause your right-clicks are pretty terrible.
You need to find a balance between DPS and EHP.
I prefer Butterfly, Satanic, Skadi, Abyssal, Travels and Manta. It gives you solid right-clicks, nice lockdown, and high EHP to both physical and magical damage. It also means you can manfight most carries lategame.
Boots of Travel
Manta Style
Satanic
Abyssal Blade
Diffusal Blade level 2
Eye of Skadi
Versus
5x Eye of Skadi and Boots of Travel
2 Spectre man-fighting each other without activating any items, which means Spectre with standard build didn't activate Manta Style, Diffusal Blade and Satanic at all.
They seems to have equal power and the survived one will always have less than 200 HP, in one of the test, both died together because of the Dispersion. If you allow the Spectre with standard build to use her items without refreshing, she can man fight 2 Spectre, 1 by 1.
Then I run another test, Phantom Assassin with Black King Bar, Monkey King Bar, Satanic, Abyssal Blade, Eye of Skadi and Boots of Travel. Not only that Phantom Assassin can man-fight Spectre without using any items and will always win, she can even man-fight 2 Spectre simultaneously or 3 Spectre if 1 by 1, with usage of items and without refreshing.
Ironically, Spectre with Boots of Travel, 3x Eye of Skadi, Heart of Tarrasque and Butterfly has more EHP and more damage than Spectre with 5x Eye of Skadi and a Boots of Travel.
@KCDF
Countered? I think not :D
We are discussing how well those builds works, we never disagree on any build.
EVERYTHING WORKS.
SOME MORE. OTHERS LESS.
this phrase will counter both parties here that think skadi stacking works or doesnt work.
;D
I also used to go Skadi Stacking Doto on OD too, since the guy is too fragile, and happens to be able to use all 3 attributes well. Slow was wasted but oh well.