try this one on for size lads

Mind if I join? Let me start with my own opinion on the matter:

opinion is "outward" whereas belief is "inward". Therefore, any belief that is expressed outward becomes an opinion and is prone to subjective lie.

so by merit a belief is only subjective when espoused to another, so if another decides to believe this subjective opinion now you have it being expressed outward between two individuals who both believe it. is this still an opinion? or is it now a collective opinion ? or is it a belief held by two who are of the opinion that it is truth, therefore not subjective any longer? even though it is being "expressed outward"?

but following this an opinion is perpetually subjective. until someone "accepts it to be true"? therefore an accepted opinion by one is a belief by one yet not subjective, and an accepted opinion by many is a belief by many yet is subjective by being both a truth and a lie?? where does the line lay between the two? when does acceptance over weigh the difference and elicit it becoming subjective or non subjective?

It is a collective opinion, shared between two individuals who both have the opinion as their own respective beliefs. These two then accepts the opinion as truth, making a group where it stops becoming a subjective truth and changes into belief of the group and only said group. Does it invalidate the previous point that every expressed belief becomes opinion? No, because it is only a belief inside the group, and outside of it the belief ceases to stay as belief, thus "expressed inwardly". Therefore, we can say that the opinion still is subjectively a truth and a lie simultaneously.

What I just described is actually our current belief system. Take for instance, politic and religious belief. Inside the group (say, a church or party), their collective opinion becomes a belief, which gives birth to order and judgement toward the "anomalies" inside their little group. However, when we take said belief outside of the group, it becomes impossible for it to stay a belief because it cannot be exchanged equivalently with the rest of the world, and becomes nothing but subjective truth then.

If you ask for the line, in my opinion there is no line, it does not exist. Why? Because the line perpetually changes according to whom/what we use as our reference point. There really is no difference between the two, since what is really the difference of a man or a group? The lines -and even the beliefs and opinions- are but a mirage of symbols we use to cover up that there is no universal truth. Only when we understand the absence of universal truth can we then understand that ultimately every single opinion and every single belief is subjective truth -in a way, they are all lies and do not exist.