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Forum » New Player Help » Item Builds 17 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by evolvedpikachu » February 8, 2015 12:27pm | Report
Thanks for the advice guys! Yeah, I'll definitely play around with the heroes and items some more. The whole Strength/Agility/Intelligence thing is pretty interesting too.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Zerosaviour » February 8, 2015 1:17pm | Report
Anteater wrote:



The problem with Viper is that if your laning partner lacks a stun or disable then you won't be able to make any early-game kills/moves unless the offlaner is brain dead and pushes the lane too far to allow you a window for your DoT and minor slow to have an effect.

A hero like Shadow Shaman or Lion really helps you in lane.

EDIT: Then again, if you're the #1 then your job really isn't to gank early, it's to farm - and Viper does give you a great deal of harassment potential.


That's why Viper is usually ran mid. Also the early game isn't about getting tons of kills. It's about getting your cores farm while denying farm to the enemy team. You eventually can win a lane just through straight harass. That's why Viper is so deadly and why Jakiro is one of the best zoners in the game. Your whole goal is to force the enemy to burn through all their consumables so they either have to leave or end up dying. If you can get a kill; then that's fine.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blubbles » February 8, 2015 1:48pm | Report
Xyrus wrote:


Mekansm isn't good on most Supports, but is good on Viper. If you feel that no one on your Team is going to be able to build it before 20:00, you should consider building it yourself. It isn't Core though.


Well Mekanisn is not really for the supports sake, but rather as a heal for the teams sake, also since most supports are squishy it gives them some regen and armor. This is why it's also good in Viper. My bad, it wasn't a very good example for a support item.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » February 8, 2015 2:25pm | Report
Blubbles wrote:

Well Mekanisn is not really for the supports sake, but rather as a heal for the teams sake, also since most supports are squishy it gives them some regen and armor. This is why it's also good in Viper. My bad, it wasn't a very good example for a support item.

The big issue with Supports building Mekansm is that 2k Gold in 20 minutes is difficult to find for most Supports, add in Boots of Speed, Observer Wards, Sentry Wards, Smoke of Deceit, Dust of Appearance and Town portal Scrolls, you have to wonder whether they're going to be able to afford it or not.

The other issues being that Supports don't always live long enough to pop a Mek an there's usually a more important Item to get (usually Blink Dagger).

Heroes like Viper, Razor and Outworld Devourer don't have to worry about points 1 and 2 though. <}3
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Zerosaviour » February 8, 2015 3:21pm | Report
Xyrus wrote:


The big issue with Supports building Mekansm is that 2k Gold in 20 minutes is difficult to find for most Supports, add in Boots of Speed, Observer Wards, Sentry Wards, Smoke of Deceit, Dust of Appearance and Town portal Scrolls, you have to wonder whether they're going to be able to afford it or not.

The other issues being that Supports don't always live long enough to pop a Mek an there's usually a more important Item to get (usually Blink Dagger).

Heroes like Viper, Razor and Outworld Devourer don't have to worry about points 1 and 2 though. <}3


The only problem with Viper and Razor is that their mana pools are small and Mek is such a drain on them. OD is the only one who can get away with building mek due to how OD is built.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » February 8, 2015 3:25pm | Report
Zerosaviour wrote:



The only problem with Viper and Razor is that their mana pools are small and Mek is such a drain on them. OD is the only one who can get away with building mek due to how OD is built.

Both Viper and Razor buy Aghanim's Scepter, so a casual Point Booster would supply enough mana to cast mek.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by I Have Layers » February 12, 2015 7:48am | Report
Zerosaviour wrote:



Actually no. Viper is a very good mid game fighter. He only starts falling off late game against hard carries. Viper has very good right click and the ability to slow enemies with ease. He can even go get a scythe as a later item for some control.

Most carries don't have a stun, especially those in the current meta. Also some of the best supports don't have stuns either. Am I right Omni?

Alright, Omni is my exception to that rule.

Right, so carries are a great way to learn DotA. Yep. Sitting around for 30-40+ minutes and farming, maybe getting a couple of kills is the best way, obviously.

You have to learn to push lanes, initiate, and support. You can learn playing carries, but I'd much rather a new player play a hero like Sand King or Crystal Maiden.
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