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At the core of it all?

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Forum » General Discussion » At the core of it all? 33 posts - page 1 of 4
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Fedorable » January 3, 2015 8:01am | Report
Core items, supposedly they're the bread and butter of an item build. But as I've played this game and visited this forum, I've begun to learn the importance of adapting your build and in turn, been asking myself this question: what constitutes as a "core item?"

Is it a constant denominator to the ever changing variables of an item build? Is it some dumb mid-game item that the game tells you to build? Granted there are some items that will more often than not, make for a solid core like Blink Dagger or Black King Bar but beyond that, items like Linken's Sphere? Sange and Yasha? Shadow Blade? Aren't core items supposed to help me at all phases of the game in every game?

So my question is this, what is the idea behind core items? Is it a rigid set of items that you should follow? Or is it supposed to give you something base your build around? Should I just rename the core item section on my build "mid-game items?" Or is there some other principle... AT THE CORE OF IT ALL?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Timminatorr » January 3, 2015 8:16am | Report
ARGH, I READ THE WORDS CORE AND LINKENS IN 1 SENTENCE. MY EYES.

ok now serial. it all depends on the hero, there are a few heroes in the game that should always pick up a centain item, like blink heroes and BKB on shadow fiend.
when i make a guide i it will depend on the hero if i use the therm core item or early/midgame options.

for example, for a sand king guide i will always include blink dagger as a core item, but for an offlane bounty hunter i will include early game options like orb of venom when roaming, phase when laning 1 v 1, medallion when your team has phisical damage, bottle, threads when you need HP, and explain when and where you will get those items in the guide itself.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by porygon361 » January 3, 2015 8:26am | Report
My definition of a core item is one that will allow the hero to perform his role optimally. For example, Blink Dagger greatly increases the mobility of Centaur Warrunner and other initiation heroes and allows them to pick off enemies easily and iniate teamfights, greatly increasing their deadliness. It can also be said that Manta Style is core on Anti-Mage because it lets him participate in fights OR push super fast immediately after acquiring the item.

In different games, the core items change to suit a player's changing play style. The core item for a rat Lycan is necro3 and/or deso, while a fighting Lycan would get something along the lines of a basher, BKB or a deso. All after vlads, of course.

If you are constantly being disabled and killed by enemy spells that cannot go through spell immunity, then a BKB would probably be core in that game. Being 6-slotted on a Morphling isn't going to help much when you cannot move or attack for 10 seconds. Same goes with Linken's if the enemy has deadly single-target spells that greatly threaten and impede you.


In the end, you have to observe your team's line-up, your enemy team's line-up and even the enemy team's item builds so you can choose the correct core item(s) for the game.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » January 3, 2015 8:33am | Report
Core just means... 'situational, but with more situations than not'

That's how I treat it.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by MrLocket » January 3, 2015 8:46am | Report
IMO, core item(s) for a specific hero are those item(s) that the hero desperately needs or they provides everything the hero needed.

For example:
Blink Dagger on Tidehunter,
Armlet of Mordiggian on Wraith King,
Monkey King Bar on Crystal Maiden (no I'm just kidding).

However, some item can be arguably a "semi-core" on some heroes, they benefits the carrier a lot but it is not necessary most of the time, like:
Hand of Midas on carry Invoker,
Radiance on Spectre,
Desolator on Phantom Assassin.

The truth is, all items are situational, you can build damage and attack speed on Lion and go trolling everyone, or get Blink Dagger on Anti-Mage/ Queen of Pain for easy escape easy life.

"What does the hero truly needs?"
My face -> ( / *3*)/

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KEEP CALM AND FEED » January 3, 2015 8:52am | Report
Literal interpretation of CORE:
The central or innermost part
The basic or most important part;

To extend this onto item choices it boils down to this sentence:
What is the most important item you will buy, with which you have the maximum game impact.The ITEM that MAKES a hero what he does, the BEST.
To boil it even more down:
It comes at the item picks as per the situation of a game that will benefit you. There can be items , that granted you can go 99% of the game and it will benefit you; but even then a situation appraisal is indeed called for.

So cores are SITUATIONAL ( you can hate it, but this is a proper deduction). That situational item that you think at the get go; that you will buy/rush/concentrate on.

To practically put it, an item, a hero generally buys with more frequency than other situationals.

As hero choices go, core is the most important hero in a game that binds the team together at the most testing of the times, also very situational and even depends on the enemy draft.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » January 3, 2015 8:56am | Report
I am inclined to agree with many opinions here. Core items refers to the item that your hero has the most use for in the highest number of situations, and often do not need to be bought every game, like many Black King Bar carriers, Nyx with Dagon, or Armlet on the strength carries besides CK (who does need it basically every game).

And then there's "I'm garbage without it/there's no other better choice that comes nearly as close" heroes, like Sand King with Blink Dagger and Tinker with Travels.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by KEEP CALM AND FEED » January 3, 2015 9:18am | Report
Quoted:
"What does a hero truly need?"


DAMN he stole from that shopkeeper vid.

Ohh how you end with this quote.
And that truly is what a core is.
What he TRULY needs.

Take a rep bro, take a rep. you struck my poetic instinct.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Xyrus » January 3, 2015 9:29am | Report
You'll have Items that you want to build on certain Heroes in 99.9% of your games with them, e.g. Blink Dagger on Magnus, but not every Hero needs a particular Item to be effective, e.g. Shadow Demon and then there are versatile Heroes who can make use of many Items to suit the team's needs, e.g. Windranger can Initiate and chase with Blink Dagger, but out a lot of damage with Maelstrom, lock down troublesome Heroes with Orchid Malevolence, etc.

rule]

There are also Items that become more important on your Hero based on your Team's Composition and/or the enemy Team's composition, e.g.
Xyrus wrote:

Orchid Malevolence needs to be built early on, and is most effective before its Counters come out (Eul's Scepter of Divinity]], Diffusal Blade, Black King Bar, and Manta Style...and maybe Linken's Sphere). Since most Core Heroes will build 1 or 2 of these Items in each game, you'll usually find Orchid Malevolence is incredibly weak after 30:00.




The way I look at it, Orchid Malevolence should never be a Core Item on any Hero, but it makes a good Situational Item on a lot of Heroes in certain circumstances.

Hamstertamer wrote:

Orchid has no specific synergy with Mirana it only really makes sense if you need a silence against heroes with escapes. On a support Mirana Euls is better for the guaranteed arrows.

Xyrus wrote:

Like this one ^ for example.

The other case being when you're up against a Hero who won't usually build any Item that counters Orchid, but if immensely easier to deal with when Silenced for 5 seconds, e.g. Lifestealer, Tinker, Ember Spirit, etc.

Generally, Heroes who can make use of a larger number of different Item Builds should base themselves around their Team more, e.g. as Wraith King, don't just assume you need to build Damage Items, consider how fights are going to play out.

Look at what your Teammates can do in a Teamfight, it may be that you have a good Initiator who can land a 5-man Ult, but wouldn't it be better if you bought a Blink Dagger, Initiated the fights yourself with Blink Dagger and Wraithfire Blast and lured their most important Heroes into a Reincarnation -> Tornado -> various Invoked spells rather than hoping that they simply get caught by the Tornado with no other form of Initiation at your disposal?
TheSofa wrote:

Core just means... 'situational, but with more situations than not'

That's how I treat it.

Pretty much how I define "Core" as well <}3

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by neutr4lion » January 3, 2015 10:24am | Report


Plz don't. I cry everytime when I see Wraith King rush armlet. Like sure, it's good in some situations, give some nice damage but core? No chance. I had far too many games when I had Wraith King in team that rushed armlet and then couldn't even get to the enemy.

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